Wildlife Photography at Leighton Moss

Old Moor RSPB has a special photography hide, set into the ground for eye-level pics of Tree Sparrows etc . So the RSPB may be open to these ideas. People wishing to use the photography hide at Old Moor book it for a set period and pay a fee (which I think is fairer and much easier to implement than a higher overall membership rate for photographers - most visitors to reserves are likely to take some photos after all, even if just on their phones). I think it's £40 for three hours. Much more affordable than commercial bird photography hides that I've seen advertised.

Very interesting dark male Marsh Harrier in your pic (the one on the right, the other is normal-plumaged). It may be the same bird that Hazy photographed at LM in 2014 (see this thread: http://www.rspb.org.uk/community/wildlife/f/13609/t/111100.aspx)

Thanks for the tip Aiki. We are not very far from Old Moor so we'll definitely get there and try the photography hide. Will report here how it went. I don't disagree about the special rate for photography hides, that could be a very acceptable way forward too. Bird watching hides are ok for flight photos on the main but anything else needs a different approach. To be honest, we were disappointed last year, when visiting Isle of Mull. We called the RSPB to book space in the hide hoping to get sea eagle chicks photos, amongst others. It turned out the hide was over 400 meters away from the nest so it was pointless even visiting (got better views of the chicks looking at their videos).

As for the second bird in the photo thanks for pointing out its a darker male! I genuinely took it to be one of the male's ladies!

Few hides are designed specifically for photographers I agree, but in some ways that's good, it means we get to mix with different people.  The variety of people you meet in a hide is part of the enjoyment as far as I'm concerned and it would be a shame if people felt photographers should be in a separate hide because a regular hide wasn't good enough in some way.  Hides that are closer to the action would be just as attractive to normal birders and their delight at having a close encounter is just as wonderful to see as that of a photographer.  I'm personally not a fan of paid hides such as the Old Moor one - it seems one step away from the commercial ventures for kingfishers, water voles etc where you're close to buying the photograph.  I'd rather spend the cash on tea and cakes at a dozen nature reserves that I'm simply walking round, taking pictures of whatever appears.

I'm not surprised the Mull hide didn't get you close - the Loch Garten visitor centre is far to distant for Osprey pictures too.  In these situations, I find a lot of pleasure in seeking out locations where you stand a chance of seeing the birds, but don't make the sight of them the aim of the day.  That way, if the bird turns up, it's icing on the cake rather than the sole purpose of the trip.

Don't get me wrong, mixing is indeed a pleasure and a great opportunity for exchange of information too. As for the rest it really depends I suppose. The issue is that if a person loves wildlife photography they will find regular hides a bit of a hindrance. I personally can't see birders lying low to get an eye level view of waterfowl but every wildlife photographer will do this almost instinctively. Of course this just can't be done in the hides as they are now.

Now when people visit areas which are not reserves (eg Sale water park) they can choose their location, angle of shooting etc. In reserves, where more animals reside regularly, this is very much not the case (in that hides are a blessing and a hindrance at the same time). Still, it's there that are lots of opportunities to take lovely photos of animals which can be used to promote the case for the protection of wildlife. That contradiction appears a bit odd.

I disagree with the comment re: buying wildlife photos. Whatever you do you can't. Even in commercial hides a lot depends on the lighting conditions, the overall weather, the angle that wildlife is coming from and a number of different factors. For instance, a simple change of the direction of the wind may mean that you only get to see the back of the birds from the hide. The only thing that the hides do is improve your chances of approaching.

In Mull we did exactly what you suggested, walking round (and getting unbelievably wet in the process as it was chucking it down most of the time). Also spent a lot of time watching a particular nest from a car park. That is fine, if the purpose of one's trip is to see whatever appears if it appears. But if the purpose is to photograph wildlife this situation can become a bit frustrating for obvious reasons.

I think paid photography hides on RSPB reserves are good news as they will (hopefully) raise funds that can go back into habitat conservation. If commercial companies are making money from offering this, why shouldn't the RSPB, as an add-on to existing viewing facilities? But I would not use them myself - couldn't justify the cost. Or the time, really. I'm a birder who does a bit of photography - I like to walk around and see what I can find :)

I think there is a difference between a commercial hide and an RSPB one though.  A commercial operation would typically be on private land, or at least off the beaten track, hidden away.  They'd put out food regularly to maximise the chances of visits from the target species.  If you wish to use their facilities, you pay for the privilege.  

On a RSPB reserve, where there's (pretty well) open access for anyone, it would be a difficult message to visitors if one specific hide were to give premium access to the wildlife, but only at a price.  If it gives (photographically) better angles but no closer to the subject, it's not such a big deal (I believe Old Moor is like this), but there'd be a lot of grumbling from people asked to pay extra for the opportunity to get closer I believe & accusations of two tier access to the reserve wouldn't promote the "Nature for all" message the RSPB is keen on.

I've posted about this subject before on a thread in the Old Moor section and I completely disagree with the RSPB over this. It's like a two tier visiting first and second class citizens. Getting closer to wildlife by paying an extra huge premium. As a paid up member of the RSPB, i feel as though I should along with other members of the RSPB be allowed at no extra cost into these other premium hides particularly at Old Moor, where they've had these premium rated hides for a few years now. All in all I don't agree with the RSPB's policy on this matter at all.

I can see why the topic can be a subject of contention. I am also a member of the RSPB. I haven't been to Old Moor so I can't comment on the hides, but will do when I visit. However the purpose of the photography hides is not to introduce a two tier system. These hides are not there to 'watch' the wildlife but to photograph it. As such they would be very 'uncomfortable' to sit in, relax and watch what's happening, same as some of the current hides are for photographers (eg windows that do not open, or too high windows from which taking photos is not possible and so on).

One way of looking at it would be that it is the photographers who are 'disadvantaged' by having to pay the additional entry fee. The idea of a 'fee' also exists when wildlife photographers apply for permission to photograph endangered species. The fact that some people do that surely is not taken to be an introduction of a 'two tier' system.

This as it may be, as the point is for all of us to enjoy our wonderful wildlife I would be happy with Joe's suggestion of joint hides with different level windows to allow for better shooting angles. If, that is, the RSPB can accommodate this request.

That would be ok, as long as RSPB members where not charged for using those hides whether for photography or just looking at birds through binoculars or scopes.

I think RSPB are charging for the use of certain facilities anyway. For instance we were told that we had to pay to visit the Mull Eagle nest observatory hide. Personally I don't mind, it's all going for a good cause and God knows we've robbed our wildlife from so much habitat, food etc that whatever we give back is a blessing! In any case your point is well taken!