Completely agree.
I absolutely agree the principal of this extra charge is atrocious. The point I was trying to make is Don't pay it!
If no one pays it it loses money so becomes useless.
I thought the RSPB was a charity owned by it's members not a "them with money and the rest" organisation.
Like I said before, personally I don't see the point of being down there but think all members should have the use of all facilities.
What gets me and I call wingeing is the "I'll cancel my membership etc. I joined the RSPB to look at and photograph birds with added attraction of helping bird conservation.
Ground level bunkers are a long way down my list of priorities.
I also joined RSPB to photograph birds. I was happy to contribute towards the conservation work too and it didn't feel right to keep attending free to use sites like Fairburn Ings without making a contribution. But now I can see a change in direction where they want to improve things specifically for photographers and charge extra for it... well that doesn't sit right with me and was not what I had in mind when I joined up so they lost my support by doing that. I don't see why that's whingeing. It's just me expressing my right as a matter of principal.
Fair enough.
Trouble is what do you lose if you give up your membership?
Never had a hole in the ground before, don't really want one!
Just pretend it ain't there and the mugs with money will eventually pay for it. They'll probably convince themselves that they are better than the rest of us too. I know different!
Last year when I enquired about the monitoring hide it was £40 and strictly no cameras allowed. Can volunteers be asked to wear there name badges when on site and working, this then makes it fairer on them people will not disturb them on there free days.
Also I believe this photo centric idea is incorrect the hide should be for everybody, if a pro wants to take pictures of birds on the ground he will get his portable hide out pick a backdrop he wants chuck down some seed and sit and wait. With his bird recordings to encourage the little things in. Just do what Mr Packham does.
On the point of view idea the hide is looking for ground feeding birds and the ability to take a photo on the same plain rather than looking down them is good.
I think a little survey would be nice quick 3 questions tick as required.
When visiting Old Moor what bird watching equipment do you carry.
1. Binoculars
2. Spotting Scope
3. Camera
Just choose the ones you have in your possession then add up the results, I would love to know the results.
Times they are a changing, people are changing, technology is advancing and the ability to take clear quality photos is easier and cheaper than ever.
Hope the thread can stay within its bounds.
Can we then have disclosure on who actually paid for the hide if it wasn't a grant did this come from membership fee/funds in which case the membership as a whole paid for it and will continue to do so if they choose to pay the price asked.
On the subject of the reed bed screen its nice but will undoubtedly be closed for 3 months during the summer. People I meet there often say they do not understand why the hide was removed and it was put there in its place.
I have not posted on this sight before but I am pay regular visits to Old Moor. I am a semi-pro photographer and I would value the opportunity to use the hide at ground level. The cost is reasonable, there a lots of hides in the UK that can be hired and I assure you that these cost a lot more than £40, typically the cheapest is £90. The RSPB is moving with the times and making use of the resources that it has in order to maximise income that will hopefully be for the benefit of the site. Hopefully it will attract other photographers to Old Moor. I find comments directed at class and income offensive, surely it is not a reflection of how wealthy you are but how one chooses to spend hard-earned money? If people want to cancel membership over this it strikes me as a bit odd, but then that is a matter of personal choice- just like if someone wanting to spend £40 to sit in a professional hide is odd to them.
The pay for hides you refer to are specifically by people to cater for pro photographers. RSPB is a charity for the members I believed it is run for the good of the creatures. well made point about class this has nothing to do with ability to pay just having top pay.
Yes, there is a difference between private hides run as a commercial business and those run as part of a charity, but the RSPB would be missing a trick if it didn't target those who would like this opportunity. It isn't being over the top in the charge, it is something extra. I agree with you, it should be for the benefit of the animals - I don't see how they lose out with this at all, but I can see how the increased revenue would benefit the site.
I find threads like this perplexing. I don't think that I will ever understand why people seem to think that membership of an organisation like the RSPB should automatically entitle them to free access to hides like this that were designed with the intention of providing a premium service, and which wouldn't have been built if it was not felt that they could be self funding and raise money for the reserve.
No one seems to argue that everything that the RSPB make available should be free to members, and if they aren't prepared to pay for the events that reserves put on for a fee they don't complain about it.
Although I have never visited the hide in question at Old Moore, it seems clear to me from the description that it would not be suitable as a hide that people had open access to. The hide is described as being suitable for up to two people, and because of the low angle will be unlikely to suit anyone who is not a very keen photographer. This type of person will want to spend long spells in the hide to get the shots they want (longer if they keep getting disturbed by people opening the door and sticking their head in). Even if the hide was free to use it would still require pre-booking or it becomes pretty much pointless IMO.
If it is found that the hide attracts a reasonable number of bookings at £30-40 per half day, it will probably pay for the seed that is used to attract the birds to the area (to the benefit of both hide occupants and those behind the screen), which will free up funding for other work. If not, then I would expect the reserve to trial a lower fee (say £15-20) to see how that works.
I'm afraid that I have not yet seen a single objection to this idea that, IMO, even starts to make a reasonable case. I fully support ALL charities trying to raise funding by providing premium services at a price, and I would be happy to see similar trials at all reserves that I visit - not necessarily aimed solely at photographers, it could include (for example) charging for access to parts of a reserve that are normally closed, or early morning/late evening access.
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