Paid for hides

We had a debate about this a while ago (in the Lakenheath Fen forum for some reason but most of the discussion concerns Old Moor). Lots of different points of view. www.rspb.org.uk/.../900267.aspx

Thanks have read the blog, and I am glad to see there are the usual cross section of people at other sites. From sensible to teddy throwers. The hides for whatever purpose should be free, and most scopers have a little camera for a record shot. I decide to give my money to canon rather than schwarovski, because I want to keep my memories of our glorious wildlife somewhere other than the brain box. Each faction seem to think they own the hide, some of us just want to co exist in harmony.

P.s. If anyone wants a debate about twitching over clicking start your own thread.

I also am disappointed to see they've done some work on new hides and are charging extra for access to them.  I pay for monthly memberships for 4 of us and have been glad to do so even though I often visit RSPB sites that are free entry.  But as a result of this decision by Old Moor I'm intending to cancel these memberships.  No teddy throwing here, just my assessment of what they are doing has driven my choice to invest elsewhere in future.

I feel I must reply to Ian U if only to apologise! I did speak to a couple of people at the Tree Sparrow Screen about bigger holes for lenses and so the person you refer to could have been me!My mind must have been more on the job I was doing rather than what you were saying, I thought I was listening sympathetically! Oh well, I apologise if I came over differently. The upshot was that shortly after our conversation, I went to fetch a saw and enlarged a few more of the slots so hopefully an improvement!

I am a volunteer with the RSPB and am not privy to all information and will leave the politics of charging for the sunken hide to someone else to comment on! One or two things I'll point out though. All the hides that the public have access to are free! There are 3 hides outside public access; the old, historic hide that sits facing the Field Pools (this was moved from Wath Ings to save it from demolition by the Environment Agency - see the Reserve Team blog 5 for more info); the bittern monitoring hide and the sunken hide in the Tree Sparrow Garden.

The bittern monitoring hide is used by people (the Wardens team and others - volunteers) to monitor the activity of the breeding bitterns. Those who volunteer to do bittern monitoring spend half a day to a day in the hide free of charge, some take cameras.  The sunken hide was built with pro-photographers in mind, getting a ground level view of the birds there (to save lying on the ground!)

I think the point being made Derek is that if there are new hides being built that are better and more suited to photographers then they should also be publicly accessible (to members) and FREE.  Bittern monitoring is different if its only used for monitoring but it's not - it's hired out for cash too.  So it's clear the facilities are being improved but are then only usable if you pay a ridiculously high price to use them.  Airport executive lounges charge less!

Hi there

Following on from Derek’s post, just to re-affirm the thinking behind the photography offer at Old Moor

We try to cater for photographers and have taken a number of steps to turn a purely birder focussed offer into one that is more photographer friendly. These things include the extension to the bird garden hide, the reedbed screen and photography volunteers out on site.

The photography hide in the tree sparrow farm is the only hide that you have to pay for. It is in the tree sparrow farm area and has been sunk into the ground so that views are at eye level to the birds. It takes the photography element to a premium level. It has been designed and built with this in mind and seats up to two people.

None of these measures, including the hide, have been externally or grant funded.

The charge for the hide covers up to two people and is £40 for a session for non members and £30 if at least one is a member.

There is a cohort of photographers who want to have a ‘just so’ photograph of a bird, that have little spare time and are prepared to pay for the privilege. It also allows the use of the hide in the knowledge that there is not some one else waiting to use the seat or space.

However, we are catering for this market without taking away the same opportunity to view this bird spectacle from anyone else. The photography hide and the viewing screen sit at each side of the same area. Any visitor to the reserve can see the same birds from just as close and get photographs if they want to. Some people are happy to pay for something extra but they are not doing so at the expense of everyone else. The only difference is the level on which you view the birds.

I can also provide an update on the Bittern monitoring hide that Derek mentions above. This is not a public hide and is in a part of the reserve with no access. It is used by staff and reserve volunteers to monitor breeding bitterns. Last year, we had considered trialling a fee (to both birders and photographers) to use this hide and get close up views of the Bittern feeding flights in the breeding season. Sadly, we were not able to offer any opportunities at all because the birds nested in a new spot and ultimately, did not breed successfully. We can’t be sure what if anything will happen this year but would still like to give people this opportunity if we can. However, this will be on the basis of a suggested donation of £5 per person. People can donate more, less or not at all but any money raised will go towards conservation work in the Valley.

I’m genuinely sorry if people feel so strongly so as to consider cancelling their membership. We have gone to great efforts to serve the needs of photographers better and also put great thought into not providing a spectacle that others visitors, regardless of membership status could not see (or photograph).

As some one put in the Lakenheath thread, this is being provided at a charge to deliver money for conservation without any impact on the wildlife and does not reduce what is available to members.

I'm a keen  amateur photographer and visit Old Moor regularly. When the "hole in the ground" was excavated I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to use it let alone pay for the privilege!

I find that I can take all the photos I want for my satisfaction from the other hides and around the reserve. People seem to like them as well!

Why all the wingeing? If you are desperate to take photos of birds through the grass and don't want to pay for the privilege move on to pastures new.

If you a wealthy mug and want to fork out those fees, more fool you!

If nobody is mug enough to pay these fees sooner or later the hide will open to everyone or be filled in. As it is the mugs are generously supporting Old Moor to the benefit if everyone else.

Good on you suckers!!

PS Thanks for the larger holes in the screen. Look forward to using them  next time we venture o'er them Pennines.

I don't think it has to be called wingeing Alfoz.  It's just honest feedback and most sites welcome it.  I'm grateful to Matthew for the explanation but it doesn't change my view.  In my opinion its a rip off and not in the spirit of the way the rest of the RSPB community works.  I'd like to bet if you review all the feedback given about this decision you would have to admit it's not something that's been very well received.  These are your supporters and customers and I hope you listen to them.  I'm not in favour of the principal charging members (specifically photographers) extra but even if it has to be done whoever thought 40 quid was a fair rate must have been at the whiskey lol

I'll bet if you made it members only and charged a reasonable nominal fee (£5 maximum) you would encourage more people to join and have a very healthy booking list for that hide, not to mention generate good additional interest in Old Moor.  But trying to charge 40 quid is money grabbing and I think it has backfired.

As the meerkats say "Simples"!!

Nobody pay it. Price will either drop, go or it will be filled in.

Personally I just don't see the point of being that low down.

Until that day let the wealthy mugs carry on supporting Old Moor!