M&S selling grouse, what do you think?

M&S do not need to sell grouse, we do not need to eat it. I agree with Mark Avery observations on his blog. From my own point of view I feel this will cause abuse by game keepers, towards BOPSs, they will be determined to maximise their product and sales, and I am not a "townie" by the way. I have posted on the M&S FB website and have written to the MD and my local MP

M&S have ignored all comments on their FB page, so I would encourage like minded people to keep on challenging M&s on this subject by posting on their Face Book page here

If this does not work the ip add is https://www.facebook.com/MarksandSpencer

Thanks for the link judiM

I read somewhere that the birds are intensively reared it was always my understanding that Red Grouse cannot be reared in intensive conditions or is the moor going to be used more intensively ? kif so they could rear a few more to make up for what the raptors take to survive.

As for selling to M & S what is the difference between this or selling to game dealers or hotels ?

RoyW,of course all relevant legislation includes no poisoning,no shooting,no destroying Hen Harriers nests to mention a few of the things these Grouse moor shoots are obviously doing and if you think they are complying then I am at a loss for words to fit the bill without being censored.I am really surprised it appears you are almost defending them.You surely do not believe this bit about getting the pigeons to more or less give to raptors,they are simply protecting the lovely Red Grouse.

michael s said:

they are simply protecting the lovely Red Grouse.

Surely not Sooty!!

All these restrictions M & S put in place will be a waste of time if no one can check them and as it is now we cannot police the shoots efficiently unless Marks and Sparks are going into the raptor protection business.

Seaman,hope you are feeling better these days.

Some of what these Grouse shooters say would be laughable if it was not serious.

Wendy S said:

I read somewhere that the birds are intensively reared it was always my understanding that Red Grouse cannot be reared in intensive conditions or is the moor going to be used more intensively ? kif so they could rear a few more to make up for what the raptors take to survive.

As for selling to M & S what is the difference between this or selling to game dealers or hotels ?

I have come to this post a bit late but do find this a bit of a strange one with 2 issues colliding.  Clearly there is the BIG issue of BoP disappearing on moorlands and that should be a major concern to everyone.   Secondly there is this commercial issue about whether M&S should sell Grouse.

Grouse are presumably sold all the time through game dealers and hotels (I have never been able to afford to stay at those hotels though).  There is no reason why M&S shouldn't market something they can sell but for the first time the average shopper is now in a position to ask questions of an organisation and I look forward to seeing any reply they may make to the RSPB.   They have reputation for being open about where their goods come from and it shouldn't be any different this time.

Pete,  I think the phrase 'intensive' is used in a slightly different context here.  Grouse are not raised and released like pheasants but are farmed as 'wild birds'.  The 'farming' techniques allows them to occur at a much higher density than you would expect of a true wild bird and I can recall going on a grouse moor in relation to my work several years ago and being relatively excited at the potential prospect of seeing grouse for the first time.  The first one I saw was excellent but after seeing 50+ in the next half a mile the enthusiasm waned a bit.   Being at that unnatural high population level requires feeding, medicinal management, heather management and predator control - all of which create the concerns that are being expressed, let alone the potential after effects of lead shot in the diet.

So for me if  M&S want to sell grouse let them do it but like all other food they should be in a position to declare that it complies with regulations of food safety and with the law in how it is raised.  The latter might be the main issue.

michael s said:

You surely do not believe this bit about getting the pigeons to more or less give to raptors,they are simply protecting the lovely Red Grouse.

The diversionary feeding's a fact (thanks Roy, I knew there was a proper term for it!), I saw it operating myself (well, for the pedantic, saw the cages where the pigeons are initially kept and had the process explained by the chap leading the wildlife tour).  Unless there's some massive (and expensive) conspiracy to build a big story around the process (which I don't believe) I'm happy I was told the truth - the control of foxes and stoats and the reasons behind it were also explained so no-one seemed to be hiding anything.  The estate in question also makes money from wildlife tours such as the one I was on, so it wouldn't be logical for them to destroy a source of income.

I don't think anyone is defending the persecution of BoP and we all welcome prosecutions where it's shown to have taken place.

A picture of a red grouse from that day, for those that may not have seen one :-)

I've just looked on the RSPB profile for the red grouse and it's amber listed.  How come it's being killed and sold if its status gives cause for concern?