Shooting Cormorants and Goosanders

2-3 years ago I photographed this dead Cormorant with two nearby rabbits that were also dead at Benacre alongside the Hundred River, are we to see our countryside littered with such carcasses?

Your attempt to justify your argument by implying that the RSPB would be perfectly happy for these birds to be killed if they ate other birds rather than fish is nothing short of ridiculous. Yes, the RSPB does protect birds, but they do not interfere with natural predator-prey interactions as they have established through research that it is not possible for a predator to completely eradicate its food source, as if the amount of prey available drops, the number of predators drops also. Cormorant numbers are not spiralling out of control, in fact the total population is most likely falling as these birds are being forced out of coastal areas due to overfishing and climate change reducing their food source. This means that inland sites are becoming increasingly important for these birds. Therefore they are abandoning coastal sites in search of food only to be shot! That seems pretty wrong to me. Some studies have even shown that the presence of predators can actually increase the size of fish, as if more young fish are removed, those survivors have acess to more food and can therefore grow larger, thus benifiting anglers. Lastly, you ask us "why the fish need to die to feed this pest?" but instead I ask you: Why do these birds need to die just so that you can catch a few fish? Well, what is your answer to that?

Ok, my turn. Let's consider some of Mr Fisher's earlier contributions

Back to the main point, the cormorants have been driven inland due to lack of natural resources - these are sea birds are they not??

Only in the same way that Lesser black backed gulls are these days.  They have adapted their lifestyles to suit prevailing environmental conditions. They're fish eating birds and go where the fish are. Birds do this sort of thing all the time. Swifts used to be cliff nesters but have moved into buildings now.

Where these birds are left unchecked rivers are being emptied and then where will we be.

Has a river ever been emptied of fish by cormorants in the planet's history? I'd be interested to review the reports. A natural waterway in good environmental condition will support an appropriate fish population which, in turn, will support a range of predators including cormorants. Where waterways or lakes get stocked with unnaturally high fish populations they'll attract an unnaturally high population of cormorants. When this "eat all you want buffet" starts to run low predators will disperse and look for easier pickings eleswhere. Cormorants are highly mobile (being birds and all that).

These are killing machines and their numbers are out of control - that is why we need something to be done and quickly.

Calling them that isn't going to win any friends around here. By the same token Blue Tits are killing machines with a voracious appetite for caterpillars, Swallows scythe their way through insects like there's no tomorrow. Barn Owls take a terrible toll of Bank Voles.

Also how are their numbers out of control? Who says so? Is there a statutory quota for the UK? Are we going to get fined by the EU if the population hits a certain level?

What would be done if these birds were coming inland and eating other birds?

Already happens - Peregrines are moving into towns and chipping away at the Feral Pigeon populations. They eat many other species too. Nobody seems to mind (except one small and shrinking interest group).  

Once all the issues are exposed then I hope that your members will also support a cull.

I strongly suspect that down in Hell anti-freeze sales will be brisk that day.

Unknown said:

Once all the issues are exposed then I hope that your members will also support a cull.

The man must be in dreamland,even more so to expect support for his ideas on a forum like this.

From the Environment Agency:

"Numbers of cormorants have increased          

substantially in Britain since the 1970s, especially

at inland water bodies. Fisheries and angling    

interests are concerned that this increase has

threatened fish stocks and impacts upon the    

viability of fisheries. Conservation groups are

worried that any widespread effort to control

cormorant numbers could threaten the bird’s  

conservation status."

OK then - why do we need to have this bird on the protected list if there are now substantial numbers?

BTW the man does know he is in dream land asking you guys on here to support a cull!

Nobody on here will broach the real question - why does a fish not have the same rights as a bird?

So you're saying that fishing is no fun unless you're guaranteed lots of catches. That's not sport.

Unknown said:

why do we need to have this bird on the protected list if there are now substantial numbers?

why does a fish not have the same rights as a bird?

Just to make sure the correct information is on this site.

ALL birds are protected by the Wildlife and Countryside Act (admittedly some in more ways than others).  There are no birds that are unprotected

Surely fish are protected under the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act (or whatever it is called at the moment).  That protection is much more of a commercial protection.

There is no reason that the two cannot coexist.  How that is done is presumably what this discussion is about.

Don't see why 'humans' should be in a position to decide what ought to live, what ought to be exterminated, or what ought to be 'controlled' by means of a cull or otherwise. We are just another species on this wonderful planet and should learn to get along with, and respect, all the other species out there that are just doing their best to survive under very challenging circumstances; most of which were created by humans in the first place!

Re Cormorant numbers, did you look at the State of the UK's birds report? The relevant bit is this: 'Numbers have declined since 1995 (with a temporary increase in the mid 2000s).'

Unknown said:

Nobody on here will broach the real question - why does a fish not have the same rights as a bird?

Several people have addressed this point. To reiterate, taxon is irrelevant. Native species, whether predators or not, are all equally important in a balanced ecosystem. Pike prey on other fish - do you advocate a cull for them too? Pike also take large numbers of birds of course, but I really doubt you'll find anyone on this forum calling for them to be removed from the wild.

New blog today on this by Martin Harper: http://www.rspb.org.uk/community/ourwork/b/martinharper/archive/2012/06/22/some-friendly-advice.aspx