Badger Culling plans for England

In order for a sanitation cull to be effective it requires the eradication (yes, that's the slaughter of every last individual) in the target zone. This would entail completely removing an apex predator from an large area. Whenever this happens there will be repercussions somewhere downstream. TB rates in cattle may fall, or they may rise. But what the hell - let's suck it and see..... 

Bad science can be worse than no science at all. Back in the fun filled fifties when the superpowers were cooking off ever higher yield thermonuclear devices some scientists were warning that a single really hefty megatonne device might just consume all the oxygen in the atmosphere.

Maybe the Russians had this in mind when they scaled back their AN602 "Tsar bomba" from a meaty 100 Mt to a still fairly meaty 50Mt prior to, in October 1961, lighting the blue touchpaper and sticking their fingers in their ears.  Happily for us all, the resultant 8 km diameter fireball didn't ignite the entire Earth atmosphere, so on that occasion the gloomier scientists got it wrong.

Now the scientists are saying that a badger cull might do the trick, or it might make things worse. So the question you've got to ask yourself is this - do ya feel lucky?

Unfortunately a lot of badgers are soon not going to be feeling anything.

JBNTS

Comments that serious culling works are misleading.  The most serious study of the effectiveness of culling was the Randomised Badger Control Trial.  This was carried out by some of the leading scientists in their field.  they looked at things very seriously with five years of killing and subsequent study of the effects.  The problem is that although culling improved things inside the cull zone the number of cattle TB breakdowns increased outside this zone and overall the benefits were marginal and were far out weighed by the costs.  Killing badgers on a massive scale might bring down TB but is this publically acceptable, is it feasible and is it cost effective.  Probably not on all three counts.

 There is an injectable vaccination available for use in badgers now, the new Government in its so called consultation says that vaccine deployment will take too long to be effective.  Yes, it will but the reason for this is that they decided to slash the budget for the roll out programme!  They are saying this is a science based programme but the science says very clearly that if you do an unco-ordinated partial cull you will make things worse.  the proposed Government approach is highly irresponsible, they are saying we cant afford to do this so it is down to the farmers.   You pay for it and get on with it.  This smacks of inability to take responsibility and cutting costs whatever the consequences.  I fear this will be bad news for  farmers or badgers.

Must say first that I like Badgers but just wonder if some peoples outlook on them might change if something went wrong which is possible and lets say 100 people seriously infected with T B.Something to bear in mind. 

Came across this today and would like to think anyone remotely interested in T B in Cattle and Badgers would look at it."Bovine T B Blog"just google it in.It is by a Devon dairy farmer who to me seems impartial,he has a closed herd which means he does not buy any he breeds all his own replacements which obviously means when he had bad T B in his herd it came from somewhere else not cattle movements onto farm and he has excellent hedges and fences to stop interaction with neighbouring cattle.His herd suffered badly with T B and when Badgers were trapped and tested and amazing 80% Badgers on that farm had T B on post mortem.When removed the T B in his cattle stopped and a nice finish is that he has remained clear and has Badgers on the farm again which are obviously clean,he has no intention of culling.I think most farmers think in a similar vein to this one and if allowed we could have a positive outcome.

Obviously that statistic of 80% of Badgers infected was only going to get worse in the sense they were bound to spread it to neighbouring Badgers.There is no way that farmers want to cull for any other reason than to clear up this disease and I do wish lots of people would stop peddling rubbish about farmers getting revenge on Badgers etc,promise you it is all emotive rubbish,farmers in general like to see wildlife on their farms.   

I agree whole heartedly with Sooty.

I worked on an Estate where they have about 300 head of Beef cattle and plenty badgers too .. 3 setts infact .

Everyone there likes the badgers on the estate and spend meny an evening watching the cubs have a wrestle. TB and Badgers are linked its a known fact in the farming world . And Farmers have a tough enough time as it is  so to lose a heard because of an infected Badger ... well you guys do the maths..

It is a tough one and  Im not  the one to say if its right or wrong  I dont run a farm Just saying if it was my livleyhood at stake It realy would be a no brainer.

Cheers

AL

How could anyone want to kill these fabulous creatures:

Photograph: Richard Austin/Rex Features

I understand that the Wales cull has been stopped:

"The controversial order to cull badgers in Wales was quashed by the Court of Appeal today.

The Badger Trust appealed after a High Court judge upheld the Welsh Assembly Government's plans to trap and shoot badgers in west Wales.

It was among measures, including stricter controls on cattle, intended to eradicate bovine tuberculosis from north Pembrokeshire and neighbouring parts of Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion.

Lord Justice Pill said the Welsh Assembly was wrong to make an order for the whole of Wales when it consulted on the basis of a Intensive Action Pilot Area which only supported a cull on evidence within the IAPA."  (The Mirror - 13th July 10)

 So let’s stop it in England.

Cattle wouldn't exist without our need for milk and beef so let’s vaccinate what we eat and leave the Badgers alone.

I understand that no one has proved which way TB travels from cows to badgers or badgers to cows. However it is called Bovine TB for a reason.

Richard

rhodopsin said:

How could anyone want to kill these fabulous creatures:

Photograph: Richard Austin/Rex Features

I understand that the Wales cull has been stopped:

 

"The controversial order to cull badgers in Wales was quashed by the Court of Appeal today.

The Badger Trust appealed after a High Court judge upheld the Welsh Assembly Government's plans to trap and shoot badgers in west Wales.

It was among measures, including stricter controls on cattle, intended to eradicate bovine tuberculosis from north Pembrokeshire and neighbouring parts of Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion.

Lord Justice Pill said the Welsh Assembly was wrong to make an order for the whole of Wales when it consulted on the basis of a Intensive Action Pilot Area which only supported a cull on evidence within the IAPA."  (The Mirror - 13th July 10)

 

 So let’s stop it in England.

Cattle wouldn't exist without our need for milk and beef so let’s vaccinate what we eat and leave the Badgers alone.

I understand that no one has proved which way TB travels from cows to badgers or badgers to cows. However it is called Bovine TB for a reason.

Richard

 

Sadly Richard a lot of what you suggest I feel sure meaning well will actually do more harm to Badgers as well as to cattle,think it is actually a fact that no one can provide a vaccine to inject into cattle as in all probability it is at least 5 years away but more likely 10 years.Have you read the Bovine T B Blog because in the case on that farm 80% of Badgers were infected and if the public do stop a cull what will happen is that those infected will spread T B to farms with clean Badgers and cattle and then they in turn spread it to other farms and Badgers which you may not have considered but is very traumatic for farms with clean Badgers seeing T B get closer and closer with the inevitable end result of clean herds and Badgers getting infected.Your lovely photo would have looked quite different if 2 out of the 3 had serious T B.Finally I think you will find as of today the Welsh decision almost certain to be changed as it was down to a small technicality.Culling Badgers doe's not give farmers any pleasure and people who suggest nasty things like farmers getting revenge should not use this emotive subject to hinder what is necessary for Cattle and Badgers.    

An interesting debate, and I can see both sides of the story. I'd love to wave a magic wand and eradicate TB, but this isn't possible. From what I've read, my opinion is that culling is not the answer, and I shall be adding my name to the list to stop it.

However, Sooty...  Your argument, although valid in points, is totally let down by immature comments like this....

michael s said:

... but for the RSPB to come on here where they are out of there depth as Badgers do not have feathers is plainly irresponsible and very damaging to both farmers and Badgers.    

The RSPB is a huge landowner. They use cattle to manage the land. They're involved in many, many great conservation projects around the world. They're not just about sparrows you know!!!

Your comment about them being out of their depth... I would be happy to wager that the RSPB have much more knowledge and know MANY more facts on this subject than you do.

thegoon said:

An interesting debate, and I can see both sides of the story. I'd love to wave a magic wand and eradicate TB, but this isn't possible. From what I've read, my opinion is that culling is not the answer, and I shall be adding my name to the list to stop it.

However, Sooty...  Your argument, although valid in points, is totally let down by immature comments like this....

... but for the RSPB to come on here where they are out of there depth as Badgers do not have feathers is plainly irresponsible and very damaging to both farmers and Badgers.    

The RSPB is a huge landowner. They use cattle to manage the land. They're involved in many, many great conservation projects around the world. They're not just about sparrows you know!!!

Your comment about them being out of their depth... I would be happy to wager that the RSPB have much more knowledge and know MANY more facts on this subject than you do.

Hi thegoon feel sure you mean well like the majority of people,hope you have read Bovine T B blog which contains just about all the facts in a small space,promise you farmers are well informed on Bovine T B as it is the biggest priority in a cattle farmers life.Myself had a dairy herd and a clean Badger sett all my working life but now see T B getting close to these Badgers which you may not believe but we find quite upsetting.Suggest you find out how many cattle RSPB own and the total number owned by farmers in U K.Rest my case but you will find in all my comments I am just as concerned in clearing this up to improve in the long term the Badgers lot as well as solving the problem for farmers,almost without exception if well meaning people emotionally moved by Badgers if they owned a herd worth £200,000 in danger of being slaughtered they would think very hard before opposing a cull that will also of course allow the disease ever more infection into clean Badger areas.