M&S selling grouse, what do you think?

I suppose it depends on how closely they keep an eye out for dodgy goings-on among their suppliers - are they actively avoiding those estates who have been caught out?  I'd like to know what their policy is over estates where a lot is suspected but nothing proved.

I would like to know how any Grouse estate is blame free as regards Persecuting Hen Harriers.Fact is no Hen Harriers bred successfully in England this year.

Surely if any Grouse estate were not persecuting Hen Harriers they would have had at least one Hen Harrier nest.

Experts tell us we should have 300 breeding pairs of Hen Harriers in England.

Of course other raptors suffer almost as badly on these estates.

Well put sooty, like the Merlins, and the short eared owls.its about time these people were sorted out once and for all.

I still think that a lot of the authorities are to worried about getting a prosecution, with land owners, I may be wrong but that's my view.

I visited a grouse moor in June when on holiday up in the Cairngorms.  It was very interesting, speaking to a local person.  A number of things are pretty clear - firstly, despite what it may look like, a grouse moor is not wilderness, it's as carefully farmed as a field of wheat.  It's not quite as barren biologically as that, but there's certainly a lot of management that goes on.  Most of it stems from the fact that Man has meddled of course - we want the land to support an unsustainably high number of birds, so that attracts foxes.  Foxes therefore need controlling so allowing stoats to thrive.  Stoats therefore get out of hand meaning they have to be controlled..... and so on.  So I do "get" why some gamekeepers might feel the need to control BoP along with everything else.  On the moor I visited, they'd come up with an interesting approach though - they buy pigeons caught by pest control companies in the midlands, then feed them in a cage on the moor before releasing them.  The pigeons, now used to free food, hang around and are "cannon fodder" for the bigger BoP, who will take them in preference to the grouse.  

Whilst it may be unpalatable for us squeamish townies, it did strike me as an interesting alternative approach and at least shows that not all gamekeepers are determined to eradicate the BoP (perhaps because the estate also makes cash from people like us on a wildlife safari!).  

As far as eating grouse - I have no problem with that - I'm happy to give it a go!  I didn't realise that you could still get lead shot though, I thought that all went years ago (the article says it was outlawed for ducks only apparently).  That would seem a strange anomaly it would be logical to correct

"On the moor I visited, they'd come up with an interesting approach though - they buy pigeons caught by pest control companies in the midlands, then feed them in a cage on the moor before releasing them.  The pigeons, now used to free food, hang around and are "cannon fodder" for the bigger BoP, who will take them in preference to the grouse." quote  

I would think that that act alone would be under suspicion, as the pigeons could have been eating poisoned grain put out by the local authorities, then they are eaten by the wild B.O.P.

they in turn are then poisoned, if that is happening then I think it should be investigate very quickly.

I see nothing wrong with M&S selling grouse (or other wild game), but I completely agree that anyone selling wild game, or anything else that is 'harvested' from the wild, has a responsibility to ensure that their suppliers have fully complied with ALL relevant legislation and that the source is completely sustainable. This is even more so when the retailer is a well known supermarket like M&S.

.

michael s said:

Surely if any Grouse estate were not persecuting Hen Harriers they would have had at least one Hen Harrier nest.

Experts tell us we should have 300 breeding pairs of Hen Harriers in England.

I can't entirely agree with this.

I have no doubt that illegal persecution has adversely affected Hen Harriers in many parts of the UK, but we should not assume that if there was no persecution we would have Hen Harriers breeding wherever there seems to be suitable habitat. The figure of 300 pairs of breeding Hen Harriers in England is based on an assessment of the area of apparently suitable habitat. We cannot know for certain that all, or indeed any, of this habitat would be occupied if there was no persecution. Unfortunately, until persecution is eliminated, the fact that persecution does limit successful breeding prevents any possibility of determining whether there are any other factors involved (and therefore prevents any possibility of taking action if there are).

There are many other bird species that are declining (as well as some 'winners'), despite the fact that they are not persecuted in any way.

Unknown said:

"On the moor I visited, they'd come up with an interesting approach though - they buy pigeons caught by pest control companies in the midlands, then feed them in a cage on the moor before releasing them.  The pigeons, now used to free food, hang around and are "cannon fodder" for the bigger BoP, who will take them in preference to the grouse." quote  

I would think that that act alone would be under suspicion, as the pigeons could have been eating poisoned grain put out by the local authorities, then they are eaten by the wild B.O.P.

they in turn are then poisoned, if that is happening then I think it should be investigate very quickly.

'Diversionary feeding' is an accepted technique that can be safely used to dissuade predatory species from taking the young of a species for which protection is desired (even if it is only so that they survive to be shot, as in this case). It has been used to good effect by conservation organisations wishing to prevent, for example, predation of Little Tern chicks by Kestrels. In this case dead Chicken chicks were provided as a more easily taken food source.

Any concerns about accidental poisoning could be prevented by only providing chicks/pigeons that have been reared on food that is known to have been safe. There are potentially some ethics issues (some people may be against the idea of rearing birds just to provide them as food for another bird), but that's a different issue!

An epic fail for the already flawed "Plan A". I might consider dining on Grouse but never from a driven shoot. Promoting grouse from a driven shoot as some kind of naturally raised health food is blatant misrepresentation. These birds are practically factory farmed. Their habitat is intensively manipulated to sustain a population that couldn't possibly exist in a truly natural environment. Predators are ruthlessly controlled to deliver high density grouse living, and the result is, predictably enough, parasite infestation - noxious little worms. These are controlled by depositing medicated grit around the moor- so much for natural food. You're better off sticking with free range organic chicken which is probably cheaper too.

I'll eat M&S grouse when they are traceable to specific estates that have Hen Harriers breeding on them unmolested. This would have to be absolutely guaranteed.

JBNTS

Nighthawk - They weren't being poisoned and left out, they were flying free so obviously healthy.  Just a bit dumb to hang around for the free food rather than flying away!

No joe I understand that, but a lot of councils leave poisoned grain down for the feral pigeons, where it builds up in their system, then if they are catching them, as you say they are, the poison is still in the birds, which when fed on by other birds passes on, this is what happened with the ddt disaster