@ Holdingmoments: I guess because they were completely encamped, and I felt like a stranger sitting down at someone else's pub table. The way the guy was talking, i don't think he's the kind of bloke who would take such an affront to his authority very well.
@Wick: It's the first time I've experienced it in an actual hide, but I've experienced it in more 'outdoor' situations like the other viewpoint/shelters at Lakenheath. It's not quite as annoying in those shelters, because there's more space to get away from them and still enjoy great views, as Katherine says.
Regarding the sharing of info and sightings, of course I'm used to quiet and polite enquiries of 'Anything about?' when someone sits down next to me in a hide - this establishes an interest in sharing the experience and the enjoyment, and that's great. And normally there's a quiet but excited whisper that filters along the benches of a hide when something unusual appears. That's great too. But I have to say that the sudden, loud clattering of shutters at 5 frames per second takes away most of the sense of discovery. It reminds me of my rock climbing days - it's a great game, all about solving the puzzle and challenge that nature has presented - how to climb this blank-looking piece of rock. There's nothing worse than reaching the hard part, stopping to think, and then hearing some over-exuberant idiot below shouting instructions. Me, when birding, I'd definitely prefer not to have some loud-mouthed show-off in the corner telling me where to look.
I think that this is an interesting discussion which raises a number of different issues. Perhaps the main thing that everyone needs to accept is that we all see things differently and will therefore act differently - and if our way of doing things conflicts with others we all need to be prepared to make some allowances.
This is a long post so I'll summarise it here:
Don't judge other peoples behaviour too quickly, and if their actions conflict with the way you want to enjoy a hide then tell them with as polite a request as possible - most people will be happy to try and accommodate you.
There is only one point that has so far been raised in this thread where I would exclusively take one side, I would agree that occupying part of a public hide for hours at a time is extremely selfish (whether you are a photographer or not).
However, it's also worth noting that where RSPB reserves have started to try out exclusive photography hides, where the photographers pay a premium for time in hides that are specifically designed for their needs, there have been some complaints about the hides being 'exclusive'. Birdwatchers who don't take photos, or who are happy with snapshots in which the bird can be identified, usually don't realise what it takes to get really great shots - and if you are happy with viewing through binoculars (and especially telescopes) you really don't need to be as close.
Unfortunately though, the type of photographer who is selfish enough to feel they have the right to entrench themselves in a public hide for so long may well feel that they shouldn't have to pay extra for dedicated hides.
As far as noise and 'directions' to birds that have been seen is concerned, this is really something for which a balance needs to be reached via communication between people present in the hide. Busy hides do have a tendency to become noisy at times, something that the birds often become habituated to. Many people enjoy discussion while in a hide and appreciate directions being given as soon as something that might be interesting is seen. Ideally everyone in a hide would 'read' the reactions of others and adjust their behaviour to suit, but in reality a request often needs to be made if you would prefer quieter conditions. Volunteers in a hide cannot be expected to be any better at reading your preferences than anyone else, and if they know that the noise level in the hide is something that the birds are used to they may see no reason to ask people to be quieter. Volunteers are also not necessarily the most experienced people in a hide, and will more often than not be happy to be corrected if they make a mistake (especially if you can explain well).
As with anything else, "birding etiquette" changes (not necessarily for the better, but that's personal opinion). While some people prefer to find their own birds while in a hide or elsewhere, others would prefer anything potentially interesting that is seen to be mentioned as soon as possible so that they don't miss it.
It's very easy to judge people on first impressions (or by behaviour seen elsewhere from other people). To pick on just one comment that has been made here:
seymouraves said:Now there are hordes of photographers at reserves ( often without binoculars - which is a giveaway) taking photos of wildlife they can't identify and making lots of noise.
What exactly is being without binoculars 'giving away' Seymour? Are you assuming that all photographers that don't have binoculars with them are not birders and therefore will not know any fieldcraft and will have no idea what they are photographing?
Nowadays especially, bird photographers can sometimes have much better field craft than 'ordinary' birdwatchers (if they want to be any good they need it, while birders can rely on the detail that can be observed from a distance with modern optics). In addition, if you are comfortable enough using a camera, it is possible to use a camera instead of binoculars (a 400 or 500mm lens gives you roughly the same magnification) so why is it always necessary to carry both?
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I'm not very happy with the RSPB having premium rate hides specially for photographers as I paid a premium price about 3-4 years ago to become a Life Fellow of the RSPB after been an annual member since the early 1970's and I do begrudge not been able to have access to those hides unless I pay an extra premium price for access. Also long time annual paid up members, can't get access to those hides unless they pay an extra premium price and the RSPB are trying to get new members all the time but photographers get access to a premium rate hide and as a member of the RSPB, I'm very unhappy with this.
Regards,
Ian.
Hi-
Dave Cottridge, Paul Docherty, Dave Tipling- all great field photographers ( not just hide jockies) I've mooched around with in the field -- all carry binoculars as well. Give me a list similar list of guys who don't carry bins and I'll happily give you your point with no reservations.
:)
S
For advice about Birding, Identification,field guides, binoculars, scopes, tripods, etc - put 'Birding Tips' into the search box
I don't always carry bins. Depends where I am and what I'm doing. Sometimes there's just too much to carry and if I'm after photos of birds and macro subjects AND landscapes, and have limited time, then something has to give. I do rather expect to be judged by a certain kind of birder when I am out with camera and no bins but I don't care... and I still manage to work out what I'm looking at, some of the time at least :)
A camera's no substitute for bins if your goal is prolonged watching for enjoyment, but for getting a closer look at a particular bird for ID purposes it IS a pretty good substitute, esp once you are experienced enough to line up and focus as quickly (or nearly as quickly) with the camera as with bins. A photo of a very distant bird (with 420mm lens) is clearer when enlarged on my camera viewscreen than the view I have through my 10 x 42 bins.
My blog: http://mazzaswildside.blogspot.co.uk/
My Flickr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/124028194@N04/
I'm interested to know which reserves have introduced 'photography hides' - I can appreciate why they charge as if they didn't the hides would suffer from the photographers in question being slated for spending hours in them trying (justifiably) for that perfect shot.
Our herring gulls are red listed birds. Think about that the next time you hear some flaming idiot calling for a cull of them.
I know there is one at Old Moor. Here's a blog post about it: www.rspb.org.uk/.../photography-at-old-moor-part-two-including-hide-hire-at-163-5-for-a-limited-time.aspx
aiki said: I don't always carry bins. Depends where I am and what I'm doing. Sometimes there's just too much to carry and if I'm after photos of birds and macro subjects AND landscapes, and have limited time, then something has to give. I do rather expect to be judged by a certain kind of birder when I am out with camera and no bins but I don't care... and I still manage to work out what I'm looking at, some of the time at least :) A camera's no substitute for bins if your goal is prolonged watching for enjoyment, but for getting a closer look at a particular bird for ID purposes it IS a pretty good substitute, esp once you are experienced enough to line up and focus as quickly (or nearly as quickly) with the camera as with bins. A photo of a very distant bird (with 420mm lens) is clearer when enlarged on my camera viewscreen than the view I have through my 10 x 42 bins.
Hi agree with your first paragraph :) If you are out covering a wide range of subjects and the day is based solely on photography.
On the second para I'd carry a scope :)
I think this subject is going to be a live and let live one
If I've opted not to bring my bins, there's no way I'd be carrying a scope! I'm just saying that even if it's a day that's about photography, the distant bird doesn't have to go un-IDed :)