Badger Culling plans for England

I must say I total agree with you sooty, a cull is in need but it must be done properly I feel the badgers with TB need to be identified first. Just so people are aware there are now more badgers then foxes and i see no difference in protecting one species over another when there numbers are not in danger of being wiped out. Badgers cause a lot of damage to wild birds that nest on the ground in fact they eat everything adult birds chicks eggs even hedgehogs. Ireland have be culling badgers with a gun for a while now have a good population and very little TB in the country so this method does work as for vaccinations they would not stop it from spreading just cover it up and that would also mean more chemicals in our food and more chance that we could eat the meat with TB in mad cows diseases but with TB no thank you. As some one that also deals with wildlife management everything needs to be kept in check so everything has a chance of surviving, If you think this is a modern thing you are wrong this type of conservation started back in the 10th century yes we may have made a mess of it by eradicating the larger carnivores and as a human race we now occupy to much land to bring them back with out endangering human life or lively hoods so things like this have to be done. posted for the second time i will not speak about my views of the rspb or the rspca as it would appear free speech is not allowed and it appears some people did not like my views although they come from other researchers so it makes them facts more then a view shame on the rspb.

Hi Victor I respect your views and understand your thinking but without being too alarmist think you need to consider that the one you are hand feeding if carrying T B could infect you I would assume.All people who love badgers like you I sympathise with but in my opinion only more badgers are suffering until the problem is solved.

Where in my opinion you could be wrong is where you say TB introduced in the first place by poor animal husbandry and cattle movement controls and do not think you should make such statements unless you have proof of this.It is something I have never seen anywhere and cannot find anything to confirm what you say,especially as this disease is nothing new as it must have been around a century at least but has exploded in cattle in the last decade which coincides with no control on badgers.

Would be interested in seeing any information if you have it on TB being introduced by poor animal husbandry and cattle movement controls.You could of course be different but everyone seems to jump on the bandwagon that this is how the disease spreads today but would suggest you look at DEFRA rules for farmers moving cattle ref TB and you will see how tight they are and all farmers have to absolutely obey them.    

For your interest an extract from a DEFRA publication states the following.

'Domestic cattle are the natural host to

M. bovis, becoming infected when directly exposed to infectious cattle (or other infectious animals) and their excretions. Uncontrolled movements of cattle are a recognised means of introduction of bovine TB into disease-free herds.'

You missed the point Ian where you said uncontrolled movement of cattle,there is no such thing.Farmers have to report every movement on or off the farm,have cattle TB tested regularly if they have not been tested in the previous 60 days they have to have them tested before they can sell,if any cattle react as positive or doubtful then no cattle can be sold until 3 clear tests except for slaughter and in cases where there are hot spots this can go on for years because they may get a doubtful in the third test.

You found some bit of weird information and I repeat there is no such thing as uncontrolled movements,the punishment for such a crime would be horrendous.    

Ian I have now checked out that bit of information out of 15 pages you managed to find about a dozen words that are in all probability history now and may even be a misprint and the proof of this strangely you omitted in the next few lines.I suggest you do everyone a disservice by quoting chosen words and like I say the next few lines contradict this,indeed as you know further into the book it states that it is a offence to break rules on moving cattle.No farmer anyway would break the rules and risk getting T B in his herd.

Now if the rules on badger movement were one tenth as strict we would almost certainly be clear already.

Apologies Sooty, my last post was not directly in response to your comments and no offence was meant.

The point of me posting the DEFRA information for all to see was so that everyone could have access to the information the government provides on bTB. The extract from the DEFRA guidance document is really useful information for anyone reading this thread and wanting to know more about what the disease is and what is being done in the UK to stop its spread. Unfortunately i could not quote the whole document just a relevant taster but i did include the link to the document for further reference. The section on the DEFRA website about bTB is well worth a look and is where the document i linked to earlier is located. I am sure you will agree that the information there is a really useful resource to help cattle farmers as well as helping those not familiar with the processes understand what actually goes on with the movement of cattle.

Since bTB became an issue, cattle movement regulations have become much tighter and they will be crucial in preventing the spread in the future along with improved bio-security, development of vaccinations both for cattle and badgers. As i think this thread has established, a cull is always going to split feelings and there are strong arguments put forward for and against a badger cull.

However the key point that should be taken on board is that one single measure is not going to solve the problem. To proceed with a cull when the most recent science suggests it will only have a short term influence and may increase cases in the surrounding areas, does raise concerns. Lets see what the government come up with and hope that their decision is based on the best science available and leads to a strategic way of dealing with this issue for all involved. As Tom mentioned earlier, the RSPB will be waiting to hear the full extent of the governments plans before responding. 

Best wishes and have a pleasant evening all!