Getting off Auto - Losing The Mirror

When Canon announced the full-frame R5 mirrorless camera body some time ago, I was interested because it was the first mirrorless that seemed to overcome many of the negatives I’d long been concerned with.  As many of you who’ve followed these Getting off Auto threads over the years will know, I’m less than keen about the small size and dire battery life of these newer bodies, especially when paired with the bigger lenses (the index of all the GoA & other relevant photography threads is here).  However, with the R5, I decided it was time to lose some of my inherent Luddite nature and give it a go.  So, here are my initial thoughts and comparisons.

The R5 uses Canon’s new RF mount and there are various new lenses available (including some interesting f/11 long focal length ones).  There are no “Big White” lenses yet, but that doesn’t really matter as there are a couple of converters available to allow you to continue to use your EF hardware on the new body.  Having tried most of the lenses available to me, there appear to be no issues I can find with doing so – indeed, as the new body has In Body Stabilisation (IBIS), some of the older lenses get a new lease of life.  The 400mm f/5.6L lens has always been a great buy for in-flight stuff especially, but was let down by not having any stabilisation.  With IBIS (which stabilises the sensor rather than the lens itself), you now get some help when handholding whatever the lens you use.  Don’t get too excited – IBIS is less effective the longer the focal length – but it’s noticeably more stable than shooting the lens on one of the DSLRs.

This pic shows the R5 with the 400mm f/5.6L – note the converter between the lens and body.

The Sparrow I took using this setup at 1/400 sec.  I would normally push the shutter speed faster with this lens to minimise camera shake, but it wasn’t an issue here.

The R5 is squarely placed to be the mirrorless version of the 5D DSLRs, so it seems logical to compare it to the 5D4.  These two pics show the size difference – the R5 is smaller (and lighter) but it’s not too bad (roughly the same size as the 80D).  Both cameras have the relevant 24-105 f/4 lens attached (I’ve used the EF24-105 as my general walkabout lens forever, so it seemed logical to get the RF version for the R5).  Nothing particularly surprising between the two, though the RF version (in common with other RF lenses) has an additional control ring (at the front).  This can be configured in the camera to be used for a variety of things – aperture maybe, or exposure compensation.  The converter I am currently using also has the extra control ring, though I have to be honest, I’ve not used it yet.  Coming from a DSLR, I’m used to using the camera without it.

So, what about the camera’s abilities?  A 45MPixel sensor gives plenty of cropability – and you can even set the camera to work in 1.6x crop mode.  This gives you a viewfinder display “zoomed in” and a 17.3Mp (effectively) sensor.  It does have an Anti-aliasing (AA) filter in front of it, but a new design (also seen in the 1DX3) which means the 45MP sensor will out-resolve the 50MP sensor found in the hi-res 5DR.  As such, I would expect a similar benefit to the crop mode (ie more resolution available than the 17.3MP suggests).  Certainly, things like ISO performance, Dynamic Range etc are better than anything else you’ll find in a Canon body.

Large crop detail in this Stonechat

The camera is capable of high frame rates – 12fps with a mechanical shutter, 20fps electronic (it varies a bit depending on lens, state of battery charge etc).  The electronic shutter has the potential for odd “rolling shutter” artefacts (where straight lines show up as bent) if your subject is moving – though it would appear to be much better than other mirrorless bodies available.  In normal use, I’ve not experienced anything odd with my typical photography, but you’d see odd curved propellers if photographing an air display for example.  I’ve stuck with the mechanical shutter for now – the soft clicking helps you realise just how many pics you’re taking.  The totally silent electronic shutter racks up images at a frightening rate – and each RAW file is ~45MB!  Those big files need a big – and fast – card to save them on.  The R5 uses a CFExpress card (and SD).  These cards are EXPENSIVE!

The best thing about this camera however, is the Autofocus.  It is capable of tracking an animal’s (or bird’s) eye around the whole frame.  It is gob-smackingly good.  This Sparrow was hidden in the bush, the camera was set to all-points animal-eye tracking AF. 

It simply locked on to the bird’s eye, it really is that spookily good.  I have told the AF to start in the middle (so it isn’t distracted by other birds around my subject), but this far and away the best AF I have ever seen.  This screenshot of the Stonechat shows you not only the crop (with the earlier pic), but the AF point (red box) the camera chose (remember, it was set to All-Points).

The camera uses an up-rated version of the normal LP-E6 battery, the LP-E6NH.  Older batteries will work, but obviously with fewer shot capability.  So far, the theoretical lower performance than a DSLR hasn’t been an issue to me (we’ll see what happens over time) but the R5 has a trick up its sleeve.  It can be run (or have the battery charged) via USB3.  That means, if I’m sat in a hide, I can plug in a Powerbank and charge the camera.  Brilliant!  Far cheaper doing that than buying a spare Canon battery!

So, any dislikes?  I prefer the DSLR top screen and button layout over the R5’s, though it’s not that bad.  The DSLR is still better for following a bird in flight (the viewfinder on a mirrorless body is a small screen, with noticeable blur when moving, though it’s superb compared to earlier generation models).  It will never be as good as a DSLR’s optical viewfinder (Ye canna change the laws of physics!), but again, it’s OK.  As the AF tracking is so much better, that less than ideal viewfinder is certainly something you can put up with.  When you start taking pics of that in-flight bird, staying on the moving target isn’t as easy as with the DSLR, but again, with better AF tracking and more fps, I can live with that.  It’s a bit annoying having to wake the camera up just to peer through the lens, and I have to turn the camera off if I put on its raincoat (covering the viewfinder makes the camera think you’re looking through it and won’t let it snooze). But these are small niggles rather than big issues.  I’ve not done any serious video as yet – few insects around at the moment!  The camera is capable of 8K – though it will overheat fairly quickly in that situation.  Of interest to the stills photographer is the possibility of lifting a ~35MP frame from the 8K footage – which, as it is filmed at up to 30fps, could be remarkable.

I’ll update this thread with other info as I come across it, but by all means ask away if you have any questions!

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  • Mirrorless is the future, and one I've been watching with interest.

    A nicely put together piece Joe, and very informative, and lovely clear images to compliment the information.

    Very interesting and reassuring that the optical viewfinder still works without power applied, and understandably, with no screen messages. I often will use my 5D4 powered off as a telescope manually focusing on a subject or scene, and often determining whether it would make a good photographic subject or not.

    One large retailer has been shouting about the R5's abilities on their YouTube channel, however, a few points are mentioned, which you've covered perfectly well and cleared a few questions I've had.

    My 5D4 when using the screen to view and take pictures seems to operate very well, with no lag, unlike some compacts, bridge cameras and camcorders. However, I find tracking a moving subject not easy using the 5D4 screen vs the optical viewfinder. 

    I'm sure in time it will be perfected, and I look forward to the day.

    The burning question; would I buy one?

    Based on what I've read and seen, once the image lag for a moving subject has been sorted, along with lenses not requiring adaptors, almost certainly very tempted, bank balance and Mrs PR's blessing pending.

    PS, I also have, and like, the 24-105 lens, it seems to be a nice alrounder

  • Michael B said:
    Very interesting and reassuring that the optical viewfinder still works without power applied

    Sorry Mike, to be clear, the 5D4 (and any other DSLR) has an optical viewfinder (so works as a telescope when switched off as you describe).  The R5 (like all mirrorless) does NOT have an optical viewfinder.  The viewfinder on the R5 requires power to work - it's a small TV screen inside the body you peer at through the "viewfinder" hole (if that makes sense).

    I agree with your comment regarding the screen on the back - sometimes it's useful, but much of the time using the viewfinder is far more controllable and natural, especially when tracking in-flight birds.  It's inherently more stable when hand-holding too, as the camera is pressed against your face rather than being held at arm's length

    ___

    Find me on Flickr / All about your camera - The Getting off Auto Index

  • Unknown said:
    Michael B said:
    Very interesting and reassuring that the optical viewfinder still works without power applied

    Sorry Mike, to be clear, the 5D4 (and any other DSLR) has an optical viewfinder (so works as a telescope when switched off as you describe).  The R5 (like all mirrorless) does NOT have an optical viewfinder.  The viewfinder on the R5 requires power to work - it's a small TV screen inside the body you peer at through the "viewfinder" hole (if that makes sense).

    I agree with your comment regarding the screen on the back - sometimes it's useful, but much of the time using the viewfinder is far more controllable and natural, especially when tracking in-flight birds.  It's inherently more stable when hand-holding too, as the camera is pressed against your face rather than being held at arm's length

    No apology required Thumbsup, it is I who should apologise, for not reading correctly and I appreciate the correction.

  • Just done a test for someone who is getting an R6 he shoots jpg so did them in jpg for him an I don't like them they come out of the camera under 2Mg so I will never put it in jpeg mode again.

    Jim

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  • Just had another look and some have come out larger.
    File Name 2O7A1466.JPG
    File Size 5.9MB
    Camera Model Canon EOS R6
    Firmware Firmware Version 1.1.1
    Shooting Date/Time 30/10/2020 11:58:28

    Jim

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  • I still don't like the jpgs.

    Jim

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  • I see Whistling Joe has been doing some video with, his "new toy" with some nice footage of a Murmuration at Minsmere. There is a link below for those who want to see the video.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/whistling_joe/50569677901/

  • Very nice footage Mike.

    Jim

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  • Not a good day for photography but wanted to test the in camera 1.6 crop out, found a Heron so took one full frame 100x400mm + X2 converter first picture is full frame second is a 50% crop from this third is a 50% crop from the 1.6 crop setting.

    Full Frame

    50% crop from the above.

    This is a 50% crop from the 1.6 picture.

    Jim

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  • Even at 800mm and the 1.6 crop it still nailed the eye.

    Jim

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