Rats and bird feeding

Ah, rats. Yes we've had them over the years. If you believe the press, which can stretch incredulity to infinite proportions, there is a rat epidemic in the UK. Not that we've noticed.

I believe we had rats nesting either in our garden or somewhere close by.

Our cat kept under control. Which surprised the living daylights out of me, as the dozy creature catches voles and mice and doesn't kill them. She lets them lose in the house!

I have become very adept at catching rodents - always have a pair of gardening gloves on standby in the living room. I caught one not half an hour ago, in our ramshackle conservatory. I have no idea what it fed on, as it has been in there some time.

What our cat does, however, is kill rats. Big monsters as well. No idea how she does it. I have stern lectures with her about despatching all rodents, not just rats.

So first consideration is get a cat, provided it's a mouser.

Second consideration: keep bird food off the ground, which will attract rats, get or build a fortified bird feeder. Here is a link to my MK II bird feeder. in this RSPB community.

Key points to keep rats at bay:

1. Anti-squirrel dome. Rats are very good at climbing.

2. Trays under feeders like peanut and fat ball feeders. I made mine out of 2 or 3mm stainless steel mesh I bought on Amazon.

3. Raised sides to any flat birdfeeder. Birds are unbelievably messy eaters, sprinkling seed all over the place. I've raised the sides of my feeder to lessen the amount of seed they throw around.

Emptying the bird bath is neither here or there, especially as you have a pond.

We also have foxes around our garden - well, just the one. But they are effective rat catchers as well.

Note, my fortress MK II birdfeeder is mainly designed to keep pigeons off it.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/.../woman-fined-feeding-birds-neighbours-24829218

The local authority can become involved if anyone’s  garden becomes overrun with rats. Also if  any Rats get into anyone’s home they can do damage such as gnawing  through electric wires that can  cause fires. Also disease can be caused by rats in a big way. When I found I had rats in my garden I immediately brought all of my bird- feeders  and brought in straight my garden, straight away incuding any bird food out of my garden I had in my garden and I phoned pest control up straight away and pest control came to my home address and managed to get rid of all the rats in my garden. And I would do that it again.if you don’t do that straight away, it will get worse very rapidly as Rats can breed with young very rapidly. And I would would you to do that straight away. The individual mentioned in this article was fined £3000.00 when continuing to feed wild birds. Also a relative of mine had a complaint made against her, as her garden was overrun with rats in her garden and she  had a warning about all of those rats in her garden and then brought her bird-feeder out of her garden and back in to her home and pest control came out for her problem. If there’s any environmental problems the local authority can ask you and then order you to bring all of your bird-feeders out of your garden if there is an environmental problem including rented accommodation as well as any action if you own your own home as well. Link to this article from a few years ago. But this is still the law.

We need to take a step back and assess Gill's situation in greater detail, as her garden may not be the source of the rats. I remember reading articles that claim most people live no more than 6 feet away from a rat. That is rat of a rodent persuassion.

THOMO's post, though pertinent and serves as a valid warning, does concern a rather extreme case.

To summaries for those who would not normally follow a link (I don't usually links), the lady in THOMO's post: waged a 20 year war with her neighbours; her garden attracted up to 100 birds at once (many being gulls) and attracted other vermin in addition to rat; ignored two orders from the council to desist; and (reading between the lines) did not call in pest control. The lady in the article appears to have psychological problems. I doubt the fines or, I would surmise, a custodial sentence would stop her feeding birds excessively.

So, Gill, could you please provide some further information about your situation? For example...

1. Do you live on a housing estate or more rural location?

2. Are there any streams, rivers, drainage ditches, rubbish strewn alleyways or houses near you that could host rats?

3. Are there shops, particularly fast food ones, near you where rats would find some food, and then they enter your garden?

4. Have neighbours reported problems with rats, particularly neighbours two or three houses away from you? This would suggest a more generic issue with the area.

5. Have rats returned since pest control got rid of them? Indeed, did pest control find any rats nests? If rats have returned then this suggests your garden is not the source; given the efforts you've gone to remove food.

I would not clear your flower beds. You will be depriving yourself and nature of so much. Rats are quite happy to live in a concrete jungle, without a plant in sight.

I would certainly fit trays under peanut/fat ball feeders. The steel mesh I used to make mine out of have1.5mm square holes; not the 2-3mm ones I described earlier. These trays, and the built up sides to the actual feeder, have reduced the amount of food dropping on the ground considerably. Any food that does drop on the ground is immediately wolfed up by Dunnocks, the sole Rock Dove (down from a max of 17) and two Wood pigeons (down from 8), plus a couple or so of Blackbirds, Robins, Jays and Magpies. There's nothing left for nocturnal rats, mice or voles.

Trail cams, I put out, have never recorded a rat by my birdfeeder. Funnily enough, they never recorded mice either. Which is odd, as we do have mice. They get into our garden, partly via some undergrowth on the other side of our back fence, and partly when my dozy cat brings one back alive and lets it go. They make nests in my raised beds. Our cat  (or neighbours) or local Tawny owl (which I hear, but have never seen) or fox gets them eventually.

From Gill
My garden is suburban and apart from a tiny bit of grass is wildlife/cottage garden. The rats are under the small shed - which is another issue as they seem to have dug through the old concrete base - if we try and take the shed down it will fall apart and replacing it will be expensive. Although we are on the edge of a large town we are about 10 mins walk from a small river and open space which is managed for wildlife. About 10 minutes in another direction is a local shop and the car park is often littered with food wrappers - I clear this up when I see it has got very bad, and there are definitely rats in that area. In another direction in a short distance there is an ex-field currently having 100 dweilling plonked on it and it was when the last phase of the building works started that we noticed the rats. I take the point about trays under feeders but there are a lot of wood pigeons that generally clear up the spillages - as do the robin, dunnocks and blackbirds. In winter I do usually put out ground food for the blackbirds etc - I had 20 at one time end of December.
As we have houses all round us - one with small children didn't feel I could leave the rats alone - and as the last one I saw was inside a feeder I had put along a cable (clearly good at tight rope walking) between two posts an was quite small I assume they are breeding.
I do get a small flock of ferral pigoens (maybe 25) but no seagulls!

Note, lightly edited to add Postcrete link and fix a few spelling mistakes.

Thanks for replying Gill. I think (correct me if I am wrong) that one huge worry for you is digging up your flowery perennials; which you mention in your original post.

NO, NO, NO! Do not destroy your wildlife/cottage garden.

Although I have mentioned many a time that I have a messy garden, it is a wildlife/cottage garden which I do keep under control. I don't manicure it, as some do, and I don't use chemicals. The one chemical I do use is wildlife friendly slug bait - it is iron based.

Here is a link to none other than BBC Gardeners world: how to remove rats in the garden. No where does it mention digging out flowers beds. It does say to keep your garden tidy. So provided it isn't a jungle then you will be OK.

Honestly, I wouldn't bother to empty your bird bath. All articles mention removing water sources, but admit it is difficult. They appreciate you can't really do so with ponds and bird baths. They concentrate of other sources like taps.

Here is a link about feeding birds without attracting rats. They mention rat proof bird feeders. I hang my peanut/fat ball feeders along side my bird feeder. Ain't no squirrel or rat going to get to them.

I have an anti-squirrel dome. I reckon if a squirrel can't get up it then neither can a rat.  It's like those stone mushroom things that were used to stop rats getting at grain stores. It's great fun, watching the squirrels climbing up the metal pole and being defeated by the dome.

I got my dome from Amazon. Here's one and Here's another  The pole is a wardrobe pole from B&Q, pushed into a clothes drier spike driven into garden soil.

Actually, as per your original post, you have done all the right actions gardening wise to mitigate removal of rats, and your neighbours certainly cannot argue that you haven't done anything.  I would suspect that some of your neighbours have not done as much as you. So rest assured.

Unfortunately you do mention that the rats are under the concrete base of your shed. One action that all advise on removing rats mention is to plug up potential nesting sites.

Here's one from a company called Fantastic Pest Control and another from good old Rentokil, plus the Gardeners world link.

HOWEVER, the fantastic pest control site mentions this.

"Plant your own pest control

Rats generally avoid lavender, so you can plant it in your garden or place lavender pots around their preferred hang-out spots to help deter them. For a more lasting solution, sprinkle lavender and mint around the perimeter of your yard to keep rats away."

There you go, Gill, get those lavender plants in. It will complement your cottage garden. Also get some Cotwolds Lavender slumber spray and/or gel. Spray or apply gel liberally around your concrete shed base may deter the rats. Plus make your garden smell nice. I actually use the stuff to help me sleep. It doesn't actually get me to sleep, but I have discovered that once a sleep it really helps to stay asleep and gives me a really restful night. I only started using it a month ago.

I mention Cotswold Lavender spray as this is the only one that seems to smell of lavender. My other half has other lavender sprays, and they smell more like perfume.

I don't suppose you know any strapping young lads, friends or relations who could dig the soil around the concrete base to then back fill with concrete. You don't have to dig up the base. Just around it to plug up hole.

A dry mix (1part cement, 8 parts ballast) should be sufficient. I say dry mix, as it will be easier to pack into any holes. Water from damp soil should penetrate the dry mix and make it go off. I sometimes water dry mix cement (when it is in place) with a fine rose on my garden hose. A minute or so should do it. I've built patio bases with dry mix concrete. So much easier than mixing it with water. Don't fancy mixing? Wickes sell ready mixed concrete for fenceposts Blue Circle ready to use PostCrete

If the base is up against a fence, then this might cause a little problem. You may have to ask your neighbours if you can check for hole on their side, and if any are found to fill them in with dry mix concrete again. 

Ah ha! The culprits. As I suspected, your garden was NOT the original source of rats. As you mention, the area has got rats in general, along with all the highways and paths they use to get from place to place. The food shops will contribute to sustaining the rats - not, I suspect, your garden. The biggest culprit will be the building site. All the rats living there would have had to migrate; unfortunately, some of them chose your garden. Get the lavender spray to work. It's worth a shot.

Please do not dig up your wildlife/cottage garden and replace it with a desert. I would be heart broken to even contemplate such a decision. Not only will you be depriving wildlife of a desperately needed resource, you would also devastate your well being. Just keep doing what you have been doing, and try plug up any holes rats can make their homes in.

So do not worry. You have done everything possible to eradicate rats from your garden. Your bird feeders do not appear to be sustaining the rats; with all the birds in your area hoovering up any seeds.

In fact I would suspect the local shops being one of the main culprits in keeping your rats sustained, along with any neighbours with messy garden littered with junk - which is where I suspect the rats my cat caught came from, next door has a fair amount of junk in their garden, and my cat has been taking a keen interest in it. Rats can travel up to a mile to get food, but generally prefer to travel no more than 300 - 500 feet. Thus the shops would be no problem; especially if there are rich, reliable pickings of lots of high energy, high fat food.

Oh, one final thing. I did mention getting a cat. The above articles also mention getting a cat or dog. Small terriers are good. Some were bred to catch rats, I believe.

I remember watching a program about cats. A scientific study of feline behaviour. They had a farmer, who had rather a lot of cats in his farm yard. He said he tried everything under the sun to get rid of rats, but to no avail. Then he got cats. Hasn't got a rat problem any more.

I’ve just come back to this thread! If Rats get into anyone’s home they will cause damage and danger to life very quickly and will. Rats can naw through plaster and also can naw through electric cables and then cause a fire in anyone’s home and I’ve said that in other similar threads.. So to say Rats are fantastic animals as well as fantastic wildlife. Are completely wrong. Also Rats carry disease. You might not agree. But what I say is 100% true! The RSPB have managed to get rid of rats on certain Islands to help more wildlife apart from Rats. So if anyone is a member of the RSPB. Do you support the RSPB controlling Rats. I say now I do agree with the RSPB controlling Rats, 100%. And as I’ve said many times before. Even after only seeing 1 Rat in my garden! I call out pest control straight away. Even though that will cost money. And I won’t apologise for doing that. I would rather have cats in my garden than Rats. And also Rats breed very very fast! So that is what I always will do straight away. Without any hesitation or apologies!by calling out pest control straight away to stop the situation getting worse and getting an infestation of Rats!

I try to think of rodents at more specific species and impact level. Not all rats are evil. Some got to where they were without hman assistance. Grey squirrels are fluffy-tailed (more cute?) tree rats. More goshawks and pine martens for the control of that introduced species. Polecat are attracted to localised (brown) rat, as the brown rat is part of their natural prey, so perhaps some more polecats could be useful.

On 'rats' (the generalised term).

I'm sure that the RSPB had nothing (directly) to do with the extinction of the bramble cay melomys. A different rat. A different island.

But it was "only" a rat (as someone once said).

The stuff the RSPB has been exterminating from remote islands is human-introduced species.

Grey squirrels can also cause similar damage to brown rats.

I know all about that! The difference if a rats into anyone’s home as I’ll repeat again it can now through plaster and naw through electric cables. Also Rats carry disease. But Rats and on a smaller scale House Mice both carry infection and instead of putting out live traps that some are no good as I’ve explained before. So as far as Rats and House Mice I don’t hesitate and I call out Pest Control strailght away. I would have have cats outside in my garden than Rats! Also Rats aware more likely into someone’s home.

Might be of interest to you.

www.thinkwildlife.org/.../

"Legal authorisation is being withdrawn for open area and waste dump use for the only two second generation anticoagulant rodenticides (SGARs) currently allowed to be used that way, bromadiolone and difenacoum. This will take effect in July next year.

It seems deployment of poisons in the open is being further restricted (or becoming increasingly illegal).