For those who are interested in osprey 'ancestry'.............
With regard to Sue C's post: of 19th March 2011:
2003 EJ lost her nest to a more aggressive female,
The female in question was Green 7B. EJ had laid eggs and, having seen off EJ, Green 7B bought in nesting material which she placed over the eggs. Green 7B was unsuccessful in breeding that year - but in 2002 she had (as a 2 year old) arrived late at the Loch Garten nest. There had been many disputes between male ospreys at Garten that year as the male osprey (Olly) who had 'reigned supreme' for many years had not returned. Green 7B persuaded the conquering male to feed her, but did not produce eggs.
Green 7B also had an ancestral link to LG - she was Olly's grand-daughter.
Some people think Ospreys are a matter of life and death. I don't like that attitude. I can assure them it is much more serious than that.
Thank you CRinger. Very interesting about close proximity of nests and how some ospreys tolerate this whilst others don't. Watching webcams has taught us that ospreys have distinct personalities...or should that be ospreyalities? This is what makes them so fascinating.
ChloeB & Tiger's Osprey Data
Wasn't it Ollie and a new female in 1990 that evicted the sitting tenants? This is something I think I know from somewhere but not sure where just now.
The remarkable thing was that the two chicks raised in 1990 did fledge but later died allegedly because Ollie could not provide enough fish. I have always wondered about this.
The following year there were three chicks, two of which fledged. Now one of those chicks went on to father Green 7B who became a bit of a legend herself although I am not sure EJ would agree! :)
As I understand it, Ollie had only two wives. The one that got tangled in baler twine in 1993 and the Olive who turned up in 1994.
Oops correction. According to "Life of Ospreys" page 25 there was a new female in 1992.
Was Olive ever spotted again after giving up on Henry in 2003?
So correction, Ollie had three wives.
Tiger Signature
Yes, in 1990 Ollie and a new female evicted a male that had been at LG since 1986 and a female that first bred there in 1987. I'm unsure about the allegation about lack of fish, but certainly in 1990 both chicks died - my records show 'due to a fox.'
Ollie's female in 1990 was with him again in '91. Then in '92 she came back late - that was the year he teamed up with his 2nd female to chase off female number 1. She then disappeared in July the following year and then Olive - female number 3, arrived in 1994.
I saw Olive twice fishing for herself after she had left the LG site in 2003. As far as I am aware she wasn't seen in 2004. She was unringed, so its possible she set up another terriitory in 2004, but I very much doubt it - surely her first inclincation in 2004 would be to return to LG and check out what was happening there as soon as she arrived in The Highlands. That she did not do for sure. My personal opinion is that she died on migration in either 2003 or 2004.
PATILY: you are welcome.
CHLOEB: I love 'ospreyalities'!
People have been posting questions and asking for theories / answers / explanations - I would like to do the same.
Firstly a couple of observsations. I have been at LG and the male has been away maybe an hour. The female is on the nest and all is quiet. Then suddenly the female stands up on the nest and starts 'food soliciting.' She stares intently in 1 direction. About 30 seconds later a dot in the sky turns into an osprey carrying a fish. Perhaps nothing remarkable about that - - at first glance - ospreys have much better eyesight than ours, we know that.
But I have also witnessed a female on the nest as then watched her look skyward and then heard a male osprey 'displaying.' More often than not you can hear a male before you can actually see him. On many occasions the female then started food soliciting. The male displaying eventually landed next to his mate and delivered the fish. But, on a number of other occasions I have seen the female on the nest react totally differently to the male displaying - I have heard alarm calls and seen mantling of wings. 3 times I have seen a male descend and try to land on the nest with his fish, but the female repelled him - the male (3 different males) eventually went and perched close-by and we were able to tell for sure that they were not the female's mate. So, surely does this not tell us that not only do ospreys have amazing eyesight, but they can also recognise individual ospreys at great didtances?
So, here is my question. I have seen on many, many, occasions intruder ospreys approach the LG nest. The first indication that an intruder is approaching is the birds on the nest - they become restless, they look around, they stare; if the intruder gets closer they may mantle their wings and then start alarm calling. Usually, if both birds are present, before the intruder gets too close 1 of them will take off and attempt to repel the intruder. I found that pre-hatching it was often the female that would repel intruders, once the eggs had hatched it was more often the male. I think again, though, that different ospreys have different 'ospreyalities' which may lead to some being more aggressive than others.
The 'old' male Ollie was particularly aggressive to intruding ospreys and on many occasions I saw him launch himself from the nest and there was no doubt where he was going - he would often fligh above the intruder then 'dive bomb' him / her.
So, if you now have the osprey 'intruder reaction' fixed in your mind would anyone like to to explain what I saw on 4 occasions - twice in 1 year and twice the following year....... On all 4 occasions both Ollie and Olive were on the nest and their behaviour - looking around, getting restless, suggested there was an intruder about. The intruder got closer, but on these occasions there was no mantling of wings by either bird and no alarm calls. Ollie didn't take flight as I had seen him do countless times before. Eventually Ollie, on all 4 occasions, took flight when the intruder was very close to the nest. But it wasn't a direct flight at the intruder. It was non-aggressive. The 2 birds in the air rather circled together, and were making 'contact' calls - if anyone has seen 2 or more ospreys fishing they will know what a contact call is - the 2 birds eventually gained height and just drifted off together, with Ollie returning alone about 30 minutes later. So the question I pose is - why such a different reaction on these 4 occasions to an intruding bird, to the aggressive reaction I had witnessed countless times before and countless times since? I shall be interested to hear people's views. I have my own, having pondered this for many years, but would love to hear what other people think.
My first thoughts of course are that these intruders are known to them, perhaps related. Offspring, siblings? Fishing buddies? Hence they were greeted, socialised with then escorted on their way. That does not explain why the intruder alert display in the first place though, if their eyesight is so good. Perhaps they have not seen some of these known birds for some time. We don't always instantly recognise people from our past or from a distance do we.
Perhaps the initial reaction of looking round and getting restless is a reflex action at seeing another osprey about, even though at a distance then they relax on further recognition.
Could it be that sometimes ospreys pay social calls when they are passing through, without posing a threat? Perhaps a sort of "Oh it's you! Hi, how you doing? Ok I'll fly along with you and we'll do a catch up. How's the wife and kids?"
It must be remembered that we know how some ospreys react to their offspring. When 5R (04) came back to visit mum {05 (00)} and dad {3(97)}
he was not at all welcome. I do not thing the case is unique.
Chloe and Tiger make a couple of interesting points - I would love to hear more.
On the 'offpsping and sibling' theory - if a parent last saw its offspring certainly 2, probably 3 or even more years ago, and then it was in juvenile plumage, and a sibling probably last saw his brother or sister that length of time ago, again in juvenile plumage, is it really possible that they could be recognised as relations a. after such length of time has passed and b. when their plumage has changed so drastically?
Not sure about the 'fishing buddies' explanation. Early in the season, in theory, most males are going to try and pay as many visits as possible to nests of their fishing buddies, in the hope that they are away fishing, so they can try entice the female for an EPC. Not exactly 'buddy' behaviour. When I have seen more that 1 fishing they seem to 'tolerate' each other, giving contact calls, but trying to get their business done as quickly as possible ane get away.
I like the idea about social calls, but I would imagine any calls made would probably be motivated by checking out either the nest and / or the aggressiveness of the resident birds, in case the visitor was thinking of changing sites / partners the following year.
Yes indeed we have seen that happen Tiger.
Ok fishing 'buddies' out the window then but there must be something about or in the behaviour of the tolerated osprey that puts it in the non threat category.
I know we have seen past offspring rebuffed but I can't really come up with anything other than the intruder being recognised by them both and yes, possibly related.
Any more thoughts or suggestions from anyone else? Would be great to hear your points of view.