Badgers need your help!

Katybirdy,some doubt whether Steve Jones is a farmer or stockman on a farm,not that I have a problem with stockman as I was one for over 15 years,he is definitely entitled to opinions but opinions entirely different to untruths and he obviously by telling so many untruths that obviously the general public would not know they were not true.He just has to have a problem with farmers to give a rant so untrue.

Sooty,  I haven't taken part in this discussion to date because I have been away on holiday but have returned to find this amazingly long thread.  You know my view that if it is right to test and cull reactor cows to help reduce BTB then logically it is right to do the same for reactor badgers.  I would have liked to see some form of testing going on at the moment although I am told that this is not yet possible.

What does concern me is the division that is taking place between pro and anti badger groups. There must be a better middle road.

All science points to a cull eventually reducing the instances of TB by 16%, a figure accepted by Govt, Badgers Groups, NFU and various scientific bodies (That is about 4 - 5000 cows a year) What I haven't seen is any comment as to how the other 84% is to be addressed.  If that 84% is nothing to do with badgers then it must have something to do with farming practices.  I would really like to see some acceptance that additonal bio security is needed at the same time.  

Such an approach might help inform those who are concerned about the cull of an alleged 130,000 badgers.

There are a couple of comments I would take you up on and one is about isolation.  There is a well known television programme that occasionally deals with BTB issues.  I was surprised to see on one of the programmes a vet testing for TB and on the cow being found as a reactor the gate was opened and it was allowed back into the herd.

The other comment I see you have made is about a connection between an increase in BTB in the 1990s and the the fact that culling badgers became illegal at the same time. The killing of badgers actually became illegal in 1973, some 20 years earlier.

Hi Bob,hope you had a nice holiday,you must obviosly be right as your knowledge of law on killing badgers would be correct but at the same time I can only assume that culling was continuing until mid to late 90s.On the isolation issue you raise the animal would definitely have to be isolated but at the time of testing can only assume that in the rush of animals being stressed and rushing everywhere they would do it as soon as testing was finished after all seeing as it was with the herd already it was unlikely another few minutes was going to make a difference,can assure you testing is particularly difficult and stressful for both animals and stockman you just want to get finished and mostly some sorting of stock afterwards needed.

Would like to see as you say some middle ground my concerns are as much for those clean badgers as farmers and cattle and for sure letting the disease spread more is as bad for badgers as for farmers and cattle.

Even in the 60s ministry made me isolate a cow that was a doubtful until retest passed it as clear and they left me in no doubt serious consequences if we did not do as they said.

What I find particularly bad is that almost everyone try's to say spread from cattle to cattle and farmers fault so will once again say the fact of the law says.NO ANIMAL CAN BE MOVED TO ANOTHER FARM UNTIL TESTED BY VET FOR TB UNLESS TESTED FOR TB IN PREVIOUS 60 DAYS.

So everyone explain how farmers can spread BTB from farm to farm,now if only badgers had to be tested before going to another farm we may get somewhere.  

Sunrider,how strange after all the details I have shown to be wrong you still say this fair play to this guy for standing up for what is right.He has obviously got some big agenda against farmer/farmers,otherwise why say so many things completely untrue.

Sunrider,thinkyou must be one of those guys that ignore the obvious lots of times so will make it very plain.

Steve Jones says farmers to blame for spread from herd to herd due to etc etc.

FACT,CHECK IT OUT TO DISPROVE HIM.LAW STATES NO CATTLE CAN BE MOVED FROM ONE FARM TO ANOTHER FARM WITHOUT BEING TESTED FOR BTB UNLESS TESTED IN PREVIOUS 60 DAYS.

Think you need to get Steve Jones to explain how he thinks farmers are guilty of spreading BTB from farm to farm with this law in place.

My guess is you will think or say oh they ignore that or some such thing but farmers have to keep movement records inspected by vets or ministry and also send cards in to movement records department.

For sure there is plenty of proof Steve Jones completely wrong.

You just do not understand livestock farmers.They will do anything to keep disease out of their herds because it is in their financial interests and having built up a herd do not want to see it destroyed.

Steve Jones even brought in something about cow to cow spread of mad cow disease,sorry again completely absolutely untrue it was impossible and was never ever documented anywhere.

Ian H said:

Those of you who have written to your MP's regarding the badger cull may have had some response, what did you think to it?  If you are planning on writing again or for the first time, here are some possible questions you might like to consider asking;

1. What surveys will be carried out in the pilot cull area to accurately assess the number of badgers present, who will carry out these surveys and what training will they have?
2. What safeguards will be put in place to ensure that the local extinction of badgers does not occur as a result of the pilot culls?
3. What monitoring will take place to establish the impact of shooting free ranging badgers on their movements and social groups (perturbation)?
4. What monitoring will take place on the impact of badger culling on the numbers of bovine TB outbreaks in cattle both within the culling areas and in the area surrounding the cull and when will this information be publicly available?
5. What assessment will be made of the number of badgers that are killed in the pilot culls that are a) carrying bovine TB and b) are not carrying the disease?
6. What work has the Government carried out to ensure that the two badger pilot cull areas are scientifically representative of all areas where culling is being considered?
7. Given recent comments from within the farming community, what steps are being taken to improve bio security on farms in areas of the country significantly affected by bovineTB?
8. How many badgers could be vaccinated with the £2 million that it is estimated will be spent on policing the badger pilot culls?

 If you do ask your MP any of the questions and you get a response, please let us know, post it in this thread if you like!

Hi IanH

I have received a standard response but nothing else. Your questions above are well formulated and I've sent them off.

Richard

Hazel b said:

The Badger debate was on Newsnight last night. Bill Oddie was talking for the badgers.

I have not had any milk for a week now.

Is it a problem?  No.

Thanks Tiger for adding the link.

I've just watched the report and can honestly say that everyone seemed to make good sense apart from the idiot representing the Government. With this in mind Government should stop the Cull as it won't be "good for the Badgers" as stated by the idiot.

Let's hope the threats of violence don't continue as this will be detrimental to the campaign. Let's follow the Wales policy and use vaccines - what ever the cost.

Richard

The FaceBook petition: epetitions.direct.gov.uk/.../38257 is currently 82 for and 499 against.

I know it is a low count but overwhelming somewhat.

Richard

It is a statutory requirement that all cattle 42 days old and over moving from a 1 or 2 yearly tested herd must have tested negative to a TB test within 60 days prior to movement unless the herd or movement meets an exemption. Information on exemptions from pre-movement testing requirements can be found in the booklet below or by contacting your local Animal Health Office (AHO).