just a question or two

Susan H said:

Hi Buzzard,

It all sounds very difficult for a beginner. Please could you tell me how to sex goldfinches?

Hi Sparrow, sexing Goldfinches needs a good eye also.

Again this is not easy to do in the field.

As others have mentioned the Nasal hairs are black on and adult male, in 1st yr males these can be grey.

In adult females the Nasal hairs are sometimes light grey, but more generally blackish-grey. In 1st yr females they are generally light grey never blackish. ( Ref Lars Svensson identification of European Passerines)

One of the other things you could use is the red on the head, in adult males the red extends more behind the eye than in females.

There are other methods used also, but again you would need the bird in your hand and you would need to know the topography of the birds wing.

Skull Ossification, Wing formula, Tail Feathers and numerous other methods are used for Sexing and Ageing birds.  All of these methods are used in ringing.

With practice and patience and a good scope or bins you can use some of the methods in the field to seperate certain species.

I'm certain I have posted some illustrations in our Goldfinch threads!! I recall comments about looking at nasal hairs LOL

Hope this helps.

Regards Buzzard

Hi Buzzard,

Thanks very much for the above - as you say, complicated and requiring expertise. What is it about men and nasal hair? LOL

I think I will stick with Sarum Bat's suggestion and continue to record them as goldfinches (mixed) !!

Buzzard, you certainly know your birds. You should add that you have 40 years and ringing experience. I do copy all this information you give and keep them on file and, yes, I have used them. Thank you.

Sparrow, you did ASK.

Susan H said:

Thanks very much for the above - as you say, complicated and requiring expertise.

Hi Sparrow, please don't be put off. 

It does sound complicated only if you let it be and you don't need to be an expert.

I'm certainly no expert!

Remember you are only looking at two areas of the bird, in fact one area will do for separating them in the field.

Just focus on the red behind the eyes, if you start by comparing close up photo's see if you can tell which are males and which are females. Once your eye is trained to see the difference it is relatively easy to seperate them. Also remember colour does play its part on seperating them.

This is the best close up I have taken, is it a male or female?

I'm certain there are other photo's in the galleries, have a look at them.

Persevere with it, it does take time.

Some of the surveys that I participate in, requires you to distinguish between the sexes. This is so we can monitor year on year reports.

Do a search using google etc. Find a photo were it shows both male and female and which clearly shows the difference.

Regards Buzzard.

PS: If you find some photo's and you want me to have a look at them drop me a note.

Hi Buzzard,

You really are a good egg! Thank you so much for this.

Is it a male? The red above the eye extends back a bit. I had a look on google where I found a male and female head only picture, and you can see the difference when they are both together. The male red above the eye extends backwards to a point, whereas the female red is almost a straight line downwards, in line with the back of the eye.

Please don't anyone laugh if I'm wrong!

I searched the images tag for goldfinch - lots of photos but none of them sexed!

Hi Buzzard, I have just been looking in two of my books and I notice that both only show one photo for adult goldfinches with the word Adult (or the symbol for an adult) by it. It just goes to show how subtle the differences are and so how tricky it can be, doesn't it?

I am having the same problem trying to work out whether my Wags are male or female. I know with the Pied, the back is blacker in the male but that's a bit like "how long is a piece of string" inasmuch as how black is black! It's quite infuriating as my Pied seems to have traits of both so I look at one i.d.ing feature and decide it's male then I look at another and revise my opinion. And I am as bad with the Grey Wag. I guess there are some things to which we are destined never to know the answer (I gave up on robins a loooonnnnngg time ago LOL).

Squirrel B said:

I guess there are some things to which we are destined never to know the answer (I gave up on robins a loooonnnnngg time ago LOL).

Hi Squirrel, yes in can be infuriating, but also fascinating.

Ah! you mention Robins again impossible to sex in the field on plumage. There is some size variation between the sexes but you would need to know the origin and age of those been studied.

Again the bird would need to be in the hand and the wing formula taken as the males have slightly larger wings than a female. This is only 60% accurate ( Ref: Svennson)

To age Robins the inside of the upper mandible is used, in 1st yr birds it is grey-white at the tip and much of it is yellow.

In adults dark-grey to tip and very little yellow. ( Ref: Svennson)

Again we would also use numerous other methods to assist in ageing and sexing the bird>

Dunnocks are another tricky species LoL we use Iris colouration to age the birds????

Set small goals in trying to seperate the sexes of difficult and similar species.

Regards Buzzard

Thank you Buzzard. I was almost certain I was right.

I am learning all the time from this wonderful forum. A few months ago I had never seen a goldfinch of any sex, and when the first one appeared in my garden I had to get my book out to make sure it was what I thought it was. Now there are several of them who are daily regulars, and I read threads where people were talking about most females migrating in winter, I was beginning to wonder if I had any females in my little charm. I now know what to look for on their heads and will see if I have any. My main problem is my pathetic camera. It isn't a good one and when the small zoom is used, or I crop too much, it is always out of focus, despite my best efforts. A new camera is on my wish list.

I will try my luck with the blue tits. I don't get great tits here in any number, just an odd one. I promise to stick at it!

Susan H said:

Hi Buzzard,

It all sounds very difficult for a beginner. Please could you tell me how to sex goldfinches?

Sparrow, the other thing I failed to mention. The Adult male has black on the forepart of the wing between the shoulders and the bend of the wing. The Adult female shows a soft greyish brown in the same area.

This can be used with the red blaze on the eye area.

Regards Buzzard