Agreed
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seymouraves said:Hi agree with your first paragraph :) If you are out covering a wide range of subjects and the day is based solely on photography.
seymouraves said:I think this subject is going to be a live and let live one
Exactly!
:o)
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The majority of birders who are also photographers (or photographers who are also birders) will carry binoculars as well as a camera most of the time - but some will sometimes leave the 'bins' behind if they are going out for a photography day. Aiki has identified herself as one example, and I'm someone else who sometimes goes out without binoculars. The reality is that birding and bird photography are often very different. The top bird photographers will usually spend a lot of time simply watching before they even try to get a photo, but once they have decided where the best place to get the shot from is, and what time of day will provide the best lighting (based on fieldwork watching the birds intended to be the subject) the bins can become unimportant and the photography may take over.
If a photographer doesn't have binoculars with him/her, it may simply be because he/she wants to concentrate on photography with less temptation of being distracted and constantly checking 'out of range' birds out with the bins.
aiki said:I'm just saying that even if it's a day that's about photography, the distant bird doesn't have to go un-IDed :)
...and yes, if something does catch their eye - and seems too interesting to ignore, it is definitely possible to get an ID without binoculars (+perhaps by raising the camera instead of bins there is more chance of a few record shots to help get a record through if it turns out to be something unusual).
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THOMO said:I'm not very happy with the RSPB having premium rate hides specially for photographers as I paid a premium price about 3-4 years ago to become a Life Fellow of the RSPB after been an annual member since the early 1970's and I do begrudge not been able to have access to those hides unless I pay an extra premium price for access. Also long time annual paid up members, can't get access to those hides unless they pay an extra premium price and the RSPB are trying to get new members all the time but photographers get access to a premium rate hide and as a member of the RSPB, I'm very unhappy with this.
Ian: I'm curious, do you also begrudge having to pay a fee (at members rates) if you want to attend a guided walk, go on something like the Red Deer safaris at Minsmere, or have other special arrangements provided?
In most cases I would expect any hides that the RSPB allows access to for photography to overlook areas that can already be seen from other vantage points but just be closer or have a viewing angle that is more suited to photographers requirements than normal hides. The Old Moor hide which Aiki has linked details of above is one such example - anything that can be seen from the hide can already be seen from the viewing screen.
Because hides like this are specifically designed for photography (and/or might be closer to the birds) it is reasonably, IMO, that there is a charge for their use. If there wasn't, and people were allowed to visit the hides whenever they felt like it, the disturbance would more than likely completely defeat the point of having a hide there in the first place (particularly if hides are closer to the birds than 'public' hides). In addition, although some of the more selfish photographers may object to being asked to pay for hide space, it might help to reduce the problem of photographer occupying 'public' hides (if only to a very small degree). The way I see it, the main consideration is finding the right price in order to maximise funding raised (too high and they will rarely be used, too low and money that could be raised is lost + there may be increased disturbance).
RSPB members have the same opportunity to access these hides as everyone else (and at a reduced cost). If they are keen photographers they may wish to take advantage of this, if they aren't photographers they won't really gain anything from visiting photographic hides anyway. It is well worth reading the comment from 'Matthew' under the Old Moor post in Aiki's link.
Clare: I don't think that many reserves have special, 'premium' facilities for photographers at the moment, but it is something that is being trialled at a few reserves. There is demand for this sort of thing, so it might be something the RSPB can take advantage of.
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RoyW said:I'm not very happy with the RSPB having premium rate hides specially for photographers as I paid a premium price about 3-4 years ago to become a Life Fellow of the RSPB after been an annual member since the early 1970's and I do begrudge not been able to have access to those hides unless I pay an extra premium price for access. Also long time annual paid up members, can't get access to those hides unless they pay an extra premium price and the RSPB are trying to get new members all the time but photographers get access to a premium rate hide and as a member of the RSPB, I'm very unhappy with this.Ian: I'm curious, do you also begrudge having to pay a fee (at members rates) if you want to attend a guided walk, go on something like the Red Deer safaris at Minsmere, or have other special arrangements provided?
In most cases I would expect any hides that the RSPB allows access to for photography to overlook areas that can already be seen from other vantage points but just be closer or have a viewing angle that is more suited to photographers requirements than normal hides. The Old Moor hide which Aiki has linked details of above is one such example - anything that can be seen from the hide can already be seen from the viewing screen.
Because hides like this are specifically designed for photography (and/or might be closer to the birds) it is reasonably, IMO, that there is a charge for their use. If there wasn't, and people were allowed to visit the hides whenever they felt like it, the disturbance would more than likely completely defeat the point of having a hide there in the first place (particularly if hides are closer to the birds than 'public' hides). In addition, although some of the more selfish photographers may object to being asked to pay for hide space, it might help to reduce the problem of photographer occupying 'public' hides (if only to a very small degree). The way I see it, the main consideration is finding the right price in order to maximise funding raised (too high and they will rarely be used, too low and money that could be raised is lost + there may be increased disturbance).
RSPB members have the same opportunity to access these hides as everyone else (and at a reduced cost). If they are keen photographers they may wish to take advantage of this, if they aren't photographers they won't really gain anything from visiting photographic hides anyway. It is well worth reading the comment from 'Matthew' under the Old Moor post in Aiki's link.
Clare: I don't think that many reserves have special, 'premium' facilities for photographers at the moment, but it is something that is being trialled at a few reserves. There is demand for this sort of thing, so it might be something the RSPB can take advantage of.
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I think members of the RSPB should be allowed to visit those hides at no extra charge as long as they don't take photos from those hides. I know of at least one RSPB member who was on these forums who agrees with me but sadly has left. As for disturbance from a hide I would say that's questionable!!
Yesterday I emailed the RSPB about this matter to the RSPB's headquarters at The Lodge.
Regards,
Ian.
THOMO said:I think members of the RSPB should be allowed to visit those hides at no extra charge as long as they don't take photos from those hides
That would be impossible to police. Hiring a specific hide for a specific period for a specific amount is very easy to control. Allowing some people free access and charging others just because they have a camera..... Nope. How do you handle someone who has a camera but says they don't want to take pictures? Or someone who uses their phone to take a snap of a butterfly that lands on the window? Impossible. I'm not particularly in favour of the idea myself if I'm honest, but the only way it can work is by following the simplest process possible.
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Well at Saltholme for example, they have volunteer wardens in every hide, every day and I'm sure they could do the same with those hides to control what happens.
Regards,
Ian.
Ian,you seem very keen on pushing more duties on the unpaid staff at reserves without whom the work of the society would suffer greatly.I am sure they have plenty to do without acting as "hide police"THOMO said:Well at Saltholme for example, they have volunteer wardens in every hide, every day and I'm sure they could do the same with those hides to control what happens.
I have done my share of various vols jobs on many reserves and am on first name terms with many at Saltholme and Leighton Moss and would be interested to hear their views on this.They probably to busy doing volunteer duties to get involved in petty squabbles but it could be an interesting topic next time we meet with the Teesmouth crew
Pete
Birding is for everyone no matter how good or bad we are at it,enjoy it while you can