Satellite Tagging

I agree with Tiger about the tagged adults.  I am however very worried now about the youngsters.  I  feel that tagging was a good thing, and we have learned a lot, but maybe if things don't improve over the next couple of years, ringing the young and tagging the adults might be a better way to go.  Seems to me the youngsters need all the help they can get!

We shall have to agree to disagree Rach. Until its been proved that a backpack (harness or aerial) has caused the demise of an osprey, I will always be of the opinion that they have no effect whatsoever on the survival of the young ospreys. Look at Rothiemurchus and how well he has done ranging hundreds of miles up and down the country and now returning for a second year.

Can anybody tell me please, whether there is any further particular data that it is hoped will be gained by further tagging of youngsters? When was the first tag used on a young bird?

patily said:

Can anybody tell me please, whether there is any further particular data that it is hoped will be gained by further tagging of youngsters? When was the first tag used on a young bird

I dont know if this, from the old Rutland site, helps http://www.zen88810.zen.co.uk/ROspreys%20site/Satellite.htm but I think it is about that time. I recall being there and seeing the tags when the first batch arrived prior to fitting.

Regrettably, Alan, it probably will never be proved, but while there is doubt, do you not think that tagging youngsters should be suspended? If the whole process of ringing, tagging, protecting the nests and the birds, and educating the public is for the wholesale good of the species, then how can one element of that process be justified on the evidence we have?

I am very happy that Rothiemurchus is thriving, but citing one success amidst so many failures is not good enough for me.

However, I respect your opinion, and as you say, agree to disagree.

I am not up on statistics, nor really very knowledgeable about OspreysI have watched them now for about four years not long I know, and i have only learnt from the lovely people on here, so I have only a humble opinion for what it's worth,

I can't see what is gained from these tags, it seems to keep the RSPB ammused to know where they are, but it doesn't keep them safe, and just maybe puts them in more danger than they would be without it. Even when it stops responding, so what does that tell them other  than the poor Osprey is probably dead, and at what cost £3000 is a lot of donations.

I can't see what right they have to tag a wild animal, let it be, by all means put the leg rings on, then and if they do come back well that's wonderful, but  the tags don't make them safe or help them make it back, so what's the point.

I will watch them fledge this year and as always be in awe of these beautiful birds, and I will await eagerly next year for EJ and Odin, oh and with baited breath for the lovely Lady,  but I won't be following the tagged birds anymore.

I think a general opinion should be taken in to account by everybody, especially the ones that know the most, after all these beautiful birds don't belong to the RSPB.

One question that keeps cropping up in my mind is if the tracking packs were effecting the young Ospreys it would most likely be for one of three reasons:

1. The pack interfered with their ability to navigate - I  believe numbers tracked "off course" to be similar to those untagged birds found off their normal migratory routes.
2. The weight of the tracker has led to exhaustion & death - if this was to be the problem then I suspect that it was most likely to occur during the migration period. The majority of "deaths" on last years young occurred whilst on their wintering grounds when the Ospreys fly comparatively little.
3. The packs are getting caught on something preventing the birds escape - not sure of any evidence either way on this. Is anyone else aware of eveidence.

The returning numbers to Rutland are great & higher than numbers I've seen suggested for Scottish birds. I've no idea why but I suspect we should compare survival rates between non Rutland birds & the tracked birds.

Look forward to others thoughts & examples

Thanks Mike  Will have a read

Hi vespa, also what about the signal effecting the navigation of the birds, I know one from garten went way of track and ended up in the Azores and was drowned, at the time some posters blamed it on a storm, also what about been struck by lightening, after all air planes get struck on a regular basis, I am sure it is quite possible that these birds with an electrical apparatus strapped to their backs,could well be a target, and don't forget these harnesses are on these birds for life and not as first told for only a year, like one or two others I feel the need now is not to tags just fit darvic rings, for say ten years, then compare results, but make these results available to every one, as it is the public that has paid for these things, and make the ones who are fitting them, be more open to the public. Jan

Hi Jan,

As I stated above I suspect the number of tracked Osprey's going off course just reflects the number of non tracked birds heading in the wrong direction. Ospreys such as Deshar & Thistle that headed too far west reflect a similar number of "normal" Ospreys that are seen heading through Ireland or over the Isles of Scilly. Unfortunately we have Ospreys descended from Scandinavian birds that are imprinted to head South West, if they head too far west they get lost over the sea & perish. Maybe the original British population were more orientated to SSW until we exterminated them!! However some ringed but non tracked birds are recovered from Countries such as Iceland and Croatia proving it's not just Tracked birds that go off course.

I'm afraid I don't have enough information to comment on the idea of lightening strikes, perhaps someone with more knowledge could comment on this possibility.

Where does your information that "these harnesses are on these birds for life" come from? I have only ever read that the harnesses are secured with cotton thread which rots away after several years and the transmitter falls off. This information comes from the Loch Garten web pages, A Life of Ospreys by Roy Dennis and Gill Lewis's Osprey Diary web blog.

Finally the point I disagree most with is that the results should be made public and more available to everyone. In my opinion tracking should never take place solely for our amusement. I only support it as Scientific research for the long term benefit of Ospreys, I enjoy seeing the results as much as others but if I donate I do so to support the work & certainly don't insist on see the results constantly; especially if this reveals details that would allow others to harm Ospreys or their nests, maybe the results have been made too public allowing others that harm Ospreys as some have suggested? If this is the case is it the tracking that caused the harm or the publicised information that allowed people to know where the tracking devises were?