For those who are interested in osprey 'ancestry'.............
With regard to Sue C's post: of 19th March 2011:
2003 EJ lost her nest to a more aggressive female,
The female in question was Green 7B. EJ had laid eggs and, having seen off EJ, Green 7B bought in nesting material which she placed over the eggs. Green 7B was unsuccessful in breeding that year - but in 2002 she had (as a 2 year old) arrived late at the Loch Garten nest. There had been many disputes between male ospreys at Garten that year as the male osprey (Olly) who had 'reigned supreme' for many years had not returned. Green 7B persuaded the conquering male to feed her, but did not produce eggs.
Green 7B also had an ancestral link to LG - she was Olly's grand-daughter.
Some people think Ospreys are a matter of life and death. I don't like that attitude. I can assure them it is much more serious than that.
Most kind.
I am rather new here so don't know if the subject of EPCs has been discussed. I know that the Loch Garten data showed, without doubt, that the average 'foraging' time for a male osprey i.e. the time from when he was observed leaving the nest area, until his return with a fish, was significantly longer after his female was brooding a clutch of eegs, as opposed to pre-incubation, supporting the hypothesis that while his mate was fertile he spent as much time close to the nest as possible - 'mate guarding', whilst after she had laid, he then spent his time seeking 'extra pair copulations.' Certain further anecdotal evidence from the wardens at LG - particularly in 1994 when Henry was observed returning to his brooding female on a number of occasions with a fish 'as stiff as a plank' that had obviously been out of the water for a number of hours, supports this theory.
I guess you mean Ollie in 1994? or was it 2004 when Henry was accused of playing away?
Ollie was fantastic in the fishing and copulating department. Am not I right in thinking that Ollie holds the record for 14 fish in a day?
From memory he also mated 49 times in one day presumably a record shared with Olive and probably not the same day he caught the record number of fish.
Didn't Henry come very near to Ollie's record and his fish tended to be quite big?
Tiger Signature
Sorry - my mistake 2004.
I think we are so priveleged having nest cams on so many Ospreys, but, if we had cams on all osprey nests within a 'colony' I think many of us would be very surprised at the number of male Ospreys that 'play away.' Doesn't Mr. Dawkins suggest that every male's drive is to produce as many progeny as he can? David Lack showed that the most successful individual birds are those that establish their nest early in the breeding season. So far as male Ospreys are concerned should their driving force not be to get back to Scotland as early as possible, mate with your female as soon as possible, get her to incubate as soon as possible, then when she is no longer fertile, spend your time attempting to induce every fertile female (the opsreys who return later than you) osprey within a reasonable radius of your nest to mate with you? The Selifish Gene I believe the book was called. Its a gamble - get back too early and the waters will be too cold to fish successfully - get it right and leave your DNA all over the place!
EPCs? Ah got you, extra pair copulations.
ChloeB & Tiger's Osprey Data
Has a male osprey ever managed to raise two families? We have had various rumours about it but I am not we have ever got an example beyond Orange VS who appeared to be quite partial to having two relationships in the same year but not simultaneously.
Which me think of the distances that males travel for food. One of the Finnish nests we follow is at Hailuoto and early in the season the male must trave extraordinary distances since all the sea around is frozen.
I have not heard of it recorded in Ospreys, no. Many males ospreys, depending on weather, struggle to raise 3 chicks. Rhys Greene showed that, so far as fishing was concerned, windy weather was probably worse than rain - probably due to the effect of the wind distorting the surface of the water, but a combinations of wind and rain over just a few days, particularly when the chicks are young, can be disasterous.
CRinger said: I have not heard of it recorded in Ospreys, no. Many males ospreys, depending on weather, struggle to raise 3 chicks. Rhys Greene showed that, so far as fishing was concerned, windy weather was probably worse than rain - probably due to the effect of the wind distorting the surface of the water, but a combinations of wind and rain over just a few days, particularly when the chicks are young, can be disasterous.
Over at DPOF we know the webmaster at Blackwater. I am pretty certain that she has seen at least one example if not more.
Yes agree, the male osprey would certainly have his work cut out providing enough fish for two families.
Female ospreys fish too but that is when the chicks are old enough to be left.
As for 'forgaing distances' that is a another interesting subject. I recall a male returning to Loch Garten with a quite extraordinary 'orange' brown trout. This type of fish was repeated for 2 or 3 days. The fish were quite 'out of the ordinary' in respect of colour. A local who fished regularly in the LG area told us that there was only 1 stretch of 1 particular river that produced fish of that colour. When we looked on the map the river was over 20 miles away - the books had suggested that males might fly up to 15 miles to fish - obviously this male (Henry) hadn't read many books. The fisherman also told us that the river was in spate during the period when the male had bought back these weird trout - and he would have found them easy to catch. Its easy to draw conclusions when these birds obviously have been around for millions of years and have 'minds of their own.' The more you think you know, the more your realise there is so much more you don't know.