Protection of the Herring Gull.

tuwit said:

Deliberately holding food in an upheld hand and waiting for a gull to snatch it. (seen it being done with inland BH gulls).

People can encourage/enforce behaviour in gulls for their own personal amusement. It then becomes learned behaviour and can pass down via training.

My main interest is interspecies interactions (and learned behaviour passed through generartions). My starting point was that robins are 'trusting' in the UK, but less so on the continent.

Unlearning of the behaviour will be multi-generational. So, for gulls, that will likely be at least forty years (IMO).

people do hand feed gulls. It even states that on the RSPB  That people do hand feed them too  so even the RSPB know that some people do feed by hand. People do encourage and enforce behaviour for there own personal amusement and it does become learned behaviour so can pass down by training like you said  I think possibly one of the ways the gulls learn is that the young gulls watch there parents 

Some reading this thread may be interested in an indication of approximate species levels of your local Gull population, but this isn't an imperative. :-)

The Black Back Gull, lesser, or greater? The Lesser Black Back Gull probably doesn't have the 'body weight' to defend its territory against a Herring Gull, as wouldn't the Black Headed Gull (perhaps this is why you only see the Black Headed Gull out of 'nesting season'?), but the Greater Black Back Gull can certainly 'defend' its territory.

Urban/rural? My locality is in a 'large village/small town' next to a (what was) major resort on the Essex coast. Buildings here are mostly 'bungalows' that were built as 'second homes', thus cover a small 'footprint', but there are plenty of shops with active movement of people during the day-time (we even enjoy a regular 'bus service'). However, it would seem that 'roof-top' 'nesting sites' are in short supply here! This is why 'Whistler and his mate' found it necessary to 'park' their nest at 'my front door'. Isn't it 'odd' that when Gulls nest on rocks and cliffs that they 'tolerate neighbours', but don't 'tolerate neighbours' when they nest on the roof of 'houses'? Only one 'family' per 'roof top' here.

'Learned behaviour' is 'hard' to undo. 'Recidivism' seems to be the main counter to the 're-education' of this species here. Humans are a 'law unto themselves' and we are unable to control 'human habits', like 'nature'.

I'm 'out of words', but my 'sympathy' is with 'Whistler and his mate' (that says it all).

Kindest regards, Ray Dart (AKA suricat). : )

Have you ever watched a LBB deliberately drown a HG (or was it a GBB drowning a LBB?). It did come down to which one was the biggest. They have severe inter-species spats. There's a youtube video showing one, or the other, or both). Gulls are brutal to their own relations at times.

I'm not that sure that they really tolerate nesting neighbours (possibly only when there's sufficient to their most immediate requirements, which vary day to day). Even when there is sufficient they will defend their nest. Long lived species, low recruitment to the breeding population, fledged young have to fend for themselves and thus a relatively low percentage of fledged young reach breeding age (unlike some species). They will steal each other's eggs and hatched young (and consume). Plenty of video of gulls eating eggs (including other gull's' eggs).. And will impnge on other species.

It's a gull-drown-gull world. That's the competitions (to live and/or die) they have.

Have a good day, because it beats having a bad one.

First of all, who reading this thread, would understand what a/an LBB, HG, or GBB ('Lesser Black Back gull', 'Herring Gull', or/and 'Greater Black Back gull') would indicate/understand any association with this subject? However, I concur.

From my last post, and the 'subject of this thread'. The 'Herring Gull' is the 'subject' and the 'interaction' within a 'human environment'.

I made remark about the difference between between 'rock/cliff nesting' and 'urban nesting'. IMHO the 'difference' is 'progeny'. Where rock/cliff nesting is 'only available' siblings and parents are acceptable in close proximity, but 'outsiders' are rejected 'where and when' a 'close proximity' is enforced by local conditions! However, where 'space' is available' to 'make/establish' a 'nest' establishes/generates hostility for 'domain control' of the area that the 'parental association' is more dissociated.
Again, I'm out of here.
Kindest regards, Ray Dart (AKA suricat)

"However, I concur."

Concur with what?

I'll admit that gulls can be irritating. But they are what they are. A bit like (dare I say it) humans. A perfect fit!

The latest incarnation of HPAI (H5N1?) may yet have a big effect on all gull species. DEFRA's involvement is so far (IMO) piss-poor.

I "concur" with your description of Gull behaviour! What else could you assume? I try to be as transparent as I can in my posts, but it would seem that I've been opaque on this point.

"I'll admit that gulls can be irritating. But they are what they are. A bit like (dare I say it) humans. A perfect fit!"

I disagree. The two species evolve different environments around themselves. This results in conflict between the species. In my 'situation', 'the nesting gulls' expect a 'large area' to raise their progeny and defend their territory.

"The latest incarnation of HPAI (H5N1?) may yet have a big effect on all gull species. DEFRA's involvement is so far (IMO) piss-poor."

I concur. The nations poultry needs protection (however domiciliary protection has recently been announced for all farmed birds in the UK), but for 'wild birds', it can only be left to happen-stance. The 'pandemic' will, regrettably, continue to its end result.

Question! Have you read this thread in it's entirety from my 'first post' (I often 'post late at night' due to insomnia)?

Kindest regards, Ray Dart (AKA suricat).

DartRay said:

Some reading this thread may be interested in an indication of approximate species levels of your local Gull population, but this isn't an imperative. :-)

The Black Back Gull, lesser, or greater? The Lesser Black Back Gull probably doesn't have the 'body weight' to defend its territory against a Herring Gull, as wouldn't the Black Headed Gull (perhaps this is why you only see the Black Headed Gull out of 'nesting season'?), but the Greater Black Back Gull can certainly 'defend' its territory.

Urban/rural? My locality is in a 'large village/small town' next to a (what was) major resort on the Essex coast. Buildings here are mostly 'bungalows' that were built as 'second homes', thus cover a small 'footprint', but there are plenty of shops with active movement of people during the day-time (we even enjoy a regular 'bus service'). However, it would seem that 'roof-top' 'nesting sites' are in short supply here! This is why 'Whistler and his mate' found it necessary to 'park' their nest at 'my front door'. Isn't it 'odd' that when Gulls nest on rocks and cliffs that they 'tolerate neighbours', but don't 'tolerate neighbours' when they nest on the roof of 'houses'? Only one 'family' per 'roof top' here.

'Learned behaviour' is 'hard' to undo. 'Recidivism' seems to be the main counter to the 're-education' of this species here. Humans are a 'law unto themselves' and we are unable to control 'human habits', like 'nature'.

I'm 'out of words', but my 'sympathy' is with 'Whistler and his mate' (that says it all).

Kindest regards, Ray Dart (AKA suricat). : )

During spring and summer 

Lesser Black backed gull not greater. 

And I rarely see Black headed gulls in summer plummage 

At the canal. I only ever really see Black headed gulls in summer plummage  where the shops are 

lesser Black backed gull

And Herring 

During Autumn rarely Black backed or 

or herring only non breeding Black headed gulls 

Except  at sea. At sea I see both herring 

and black headed but more predominantly 

herring gulls during Autumn 

there’s a lot less people visiting the beach and so preferring to stay at the shore line 

unless they decide to wonder around or fly off somewhere. Once they fly off they land on the roof of houses

or other structures like most birds. 

Thanks for your input Zo, but in my 'seaside' region the 'Herring Gull' (major population) is seen on rooftops throughout the year during 'daylight hours', but at 'night' they tend to fly to the 'sea' where they gather (presumably to take advantage of 'larger fish' that rise from the depths at night) in groups.

I've no idea of the constituents/relationships that make up these 'seafaring groups', but I wouldn't be surprised if they were all 'related' to one another. Perhaps tuwit can help here?

Kind regards, Ray Dart (AKA suricat).

OK Zo, I'll partly reveal my location of observations!

If you go to Clacton-on-Sea, in Essex, and take a walk along their pier there with a 'powerful torch' during 'night-time hours', you'll be able to see 'flotillas' of 'Herring Gull' grouped together in individual 'flotillas'. This behaviour 'isn't' observable during 'day-time' periods when the birds seek a 'roosting habit' on 'land areas'!

Surely this is their 'fishing exercise' to garner 'food' for a 'familial/accepted group' of Gulls, though perhaps this could be 'something else'?

Your thoughts please.

Kind regards, Ray Dart (AKA suricat).

DartRay said:

OK Zo, I'll partly reveal my location of observations!

If you go to Clacton-on-Sea, in Essex, and take a walk along their pier there with a 'powerful torch' during 'night-time hours', you'll be able to see 'flotillas' of 'Herring Gull' grouped together in individual 'flotillas'. This behaviour 'isn't' observable during 'day-time' periods when the birds seek a 'roosting habit' on 'land areas'!

Surely this is their 'fishing exercise' to garner 'food' for a 'familial/accepted group' of Gulls, though perhaps this could be 'something else'?

Your thoughts please.

Kind regards, Ray Dart (AKA suricat).

Thats interesting. I don’t really know what my thoughts are cause I havnt been to see them at night before but if I go there again and I  get the opportunity to be out at night there I might have a look. but One of the reasons could be safety and security that is one of the main reasons birds gather together.