Image copyright

PS.

I've put my strong spectacles on and found the "terms & conditions" link at the bottom of the page.

So - I understand the Creative Commons situation with regard to other users using my images, and what the RSPB reserve the right to do (basically anything), but I still don't know my rights with images that RSPB staff have put on the blog.

Jerry

This issue was debated at some length last year on the forum. Im not sure where the rules are regarding the copyright of pictures posted but if I remember correctly.

1) The copyright remains with yourself

2) By uploading you give the RSPB permission to use your picture. Credit will be given to you the CR holder however.

3) The most contentious the RSPB reserves the right to license your picture to other third parties for which they may charge a fee. I.E they can re-license it although you still remain the CR holder.

Rgds

If RSPB staff have uploaded without your permission they have broken copyright. If you gave permission for the upload then unless you have some form of legal agreement it's a once off usage solely for the use on a particular RSPB blog them I would assume my points 1 to 3 above would apply.

Thanks, Plover.

The blog use I was asking about is with my permission, inasmuch as I e-mailed the images to the staff member specifically for the blog!  I admit that I didn't discuss copyright with the RSPB staff.

My conclusion is the same as yours, namely that the same rules apply as if I had uploaded it myself.

Thanks again.

Generally, although the terms and conditions stated for the upload of photos to sites like this may make it sound like the owners of the website are gaining permission to do basically whatever they like with photos that are uploaded, I would not expect there to be any conscious attempt by the RSPB to re-use uploaded content. The sole exception perhaps being where content that is uploaded to the forum is used to promote the RSPB and/or the specific website to which it refers.

The terms and conditions, in my opinion, seek to protect the RPSB from the possibility of being sued for breach of copyright if a photo does somehow end up being used elsewhere. I have had a photo used once before in a similar situation (not involving the RSPB) when it was mistakenly thought that the copyright of one of my photos belonged to an organisation which I had allowed to use it on their website. In that occasion I had no objection to the use that was made of it, but they sent me an apology, and a cheque for the usage, anyway after a staff member realised the error (without any contact whatsoever from me regarding the use of the image).

As stated in the T's & C's, the RSPB would expect to try and seek permission from a poster if they knowingly wish to use an image that has been uploaded elsewhere.

The clause giving users permission to use a copy for 'personal use' protects the RSPB from any claims if it is discovered that another user has copied an image, although users should note that 'personal use' only means, for example, copying an image onto their PC (eg. to keep it for identification use) - it does not mean that they can post the image on their own blog etc.

Similar copyright 'permissions' are fairly standard when photos are uploaded elsewhere.

Roy, in a nutshell, by uploading pictures to the RSPB, like many other open forum sites you give the right for your picture to be used and or re-licensed to be used, as the owner of the forum sees fit. Upload a picture and regardless of courtesy or whatever else you have given the forum owner carte blanche to do what they like with your picture.

Jerry would have had to have a legal agreement with the RSPB that his picture was for a once off usage for a particular reason otherwise it's open game for usage. The RSPB forum is basically a free stock library and why not we dont pay to join.

www.rspb.org.uk/.../91538.aspx

From Mrs T herself. Pass of others work and be damned. Thats the RSPB we tried to protect ourselves bit.

Any picture posted here on the RSPB that you are the legal CR holder over and you give explicit rights to the RSPB to do what they want with it.

As you say, Plover, these arrangements are fairly typical on online forums. Provided I upload (or offer use to staff) of my CR material in full knowledge of this, I can live with it (and will usually offer a suitably small version).

As an aside, Roy, I don't think the Ts&Cs say that "the RSPB would expect to try and seek permission from a poster if they knowingly wish to use an image that has been uploaded elsewhere". What they say is that they would seek permission if they want to use CR material uploaded to the Community elsewhere.

Of course, they should do what you said as well!

Thank you both for your input.

Plover said:

Roy, in a nutshell, by uploading pictures to the RSPB, like many other open forum sites you give the right for your picture to be used and or re-licensed to be used, as the owner of the forum sees fit. Upload a picture and regardless of courtesy or whatever else you have given the forum owner carte blanche to do what they like with your picture.

Yes, but as I tried to get across in my previous post, this is generally covered in forum terms and conditions to protect the forum owners from claims of unauthorised copyright use if the image is inadvertently used elsewhere without the copyright owner being informed. In this case the RSPB are basically covering themselves against claims if the photos are copied to other parts of the forum (which can be done by other users), used elsewhere on the website etc. As clearly stated in the T's & C's (under the heading "Use of your contributions" - with bold added):

"The RSPB may retain your contribution and may choose to display your postings elsewhere on www.rspb.org.uk. The RSPB may also publish your contribution in other media; where possible we will approach you directly to confirm your permission for publication."

In my opinion, the T's & C's are NOT intended as a way to enable the RSPB to collect a library of images which they can then use without payment, and potentially make money from, they are intended to protect the RSPB from claims if, for whatever reason, direct permission is not obtained but an image still ends up being used.

There will be very few occasions where the RSPB is refused permission to use photos that members of this forum have uploaded (if any), so there is no need for them to try and gain the use of photos surreptitiously. They do, however, need to be covered for any occasions where photos DO end up being used, and for continued use of photos that a member may decide he/she wants deleted at a later date, but can't delete themselves (preventing admin time from being wasted trying to locate, and delete, all copies of an image a forum member may have uploaded).

In principle the T's & C's give the RSPB permission to use any uploaded content however they wish, but in reality this permission is highly unlikely to be intended to be used to it's full extent.

jerryh said:

As an aside, Roy, I don't think the Ts&Cs say that "the RSPB would expect to try and seek permission from a poster if they knowingly wish to use an image that has been uploaded elsewhere". What they say is that they would seek permission if they want to use CR material uploaded to the Community elsewhere.

An image that has been uploaded is copyrighted material Jerry! Photographs and artwork are protected by copyright in the same way as any other material, and the copyright is maintained by the photographer when images are uploaded (just with permission given for the image to be used). Therefore, if permission will be sought (where reasonable) before copyrighted material is used elsewhere, that includes the use of photographs.